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Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

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Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#361

Post by techsupporter »

maccard wrote: post #277
bruce343434 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't we all?

Nope. Some of us are perfectly happy doing what we're doing, and to continue with a balance of work and not work for a long long time.

I'm exactly in this position, yet when I said in another thread that I was quite content with my salary that's mid-tier for Seattle (but fantastically wealthy in a lot of the rest of the country), at a company that's all but certain to be around for at least the rest of my working lifetime, doing work to enable that company to do work that I consider useful (we're a medical practice group), and had no plans to change, I got incredulous replies.

One of the things I legitimately struggle to understand about other people is the willingness to exchange an irreplaceable thing, time, for a very replaceable thing, money, and suffer while doing it when other choices exist. The "when" in that bit is very important. A lot of people do not have that choice, and I understand why they continue; there's no other option. But for people who do what we do and how we do it, why chase the brass ring for so long? You don't have to suffer at Amazon, no amount of stock options are worth it. You will never get back that night you spent working on that one last thing instead of going home to your partner or kids or friends. The marginal impact of another $5,000 when you already make $125,000 in a year is very small.

And, as a bonus, not only are you helping yourself, you're helping the rest of our industry. Since we are largely allergic to unions in this industry, the only leverage we have is if enough people finally realize that it is possible to have a good work as part of a good life.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#362

Post by moeris »

nkozyra wrote: post #166
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

> There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts.

I worked with the county doing road construction and logging for seven years, then was a teacher for a couple years after that. Now I work at a cushy FAANG job.

I still miss both of my previous jobs often. Construction wasn't super meaningful, but there was a focus on making quality artifacts that isn't really the same in software. (Software is too complex, too large, and has too many constraints.) Working with physical implements is nice. I miss knowing the weather more intimately, and being physically exhausted at the end of the day.

Teaching was very meaningful, but emotionally exhausting. If the pay hadn't been terrible and if I had found a supportive administration, I'd probably be happier teaching. I miss working with children, being a part of a community.

Having worked these sort of jobs and having enjoyed them, I don't think it's condescending at all. I think there may be a bit of ignorance there. If you didn't grow up doing physical labor (I grew up on a farm) then you likely will have a hard time adapting to physical exertion/pain. And you have to recognize that you'll likely encounter physical injuries, especially later in your career. (In my shortish stint, I managed to injure my shoulder, and it still affects me). But if SWEs still like the idea, then they should give it a shot for a year. Software will still be there.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#363

Post by MrAbstract »

sodapopcan wrote: post #55

At an old job, we were next to a window that looked out onto a crossing guard who was there most of the day. We used to say, "That's it, I'm becoming a crossing guard," when work got tough. But ya, I agree, I wouldn't pick anything over tech, no matter how rough it gets. In terms of "constantly staying up to date", that's a large reason I moved to a tech stack with less moving parts and slower-moving major change. It…

> I moved to a tech stack with less moving parts and slower-moving major change.

Could you please share what tech stack is this? Frankly speaking, I also consider finding something more stable and slow-paced as a continuation of my software career at this point.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#364

Post by redisman »

runjake wrote: post #271

I work with tradesmen daily. They put up with the same, as well as job-specific BS, just like we do. It’s a pipe dream to think it’s some career utopia. Unless you want a change of flavor in the BS you put up with, for a while.

People need to listen to more George Carlin.

Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#365

Post by artemonster »

civilized wrote: post #338
artemonster wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the insight on where you draw the line, that explains a lot. Still, a hard terrain to navigate on when you can say something and when you can't, even if you make correct statements backed up by data. Just to be clear we're on the same page: I've made absolutely same observation about other bmw drivers. and we, humans, do exactly that: observe and generalize. Regarding my personal beliefs, as I've stated…

On the difference between making these generalizations along racial lines vs other things - it mostly comes down to the fact that our ancestors ruined the fun. After humanity had used certain type of statements to justify mass dehumanization, slavery, Holocaust, etc., people don't want to see that happen again. Then it's just a question of how big a red circle we want to draw around that kind of talk. Most people fou…

thank you for your explanations

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#366

Post by verisimi »

lokalfarm wrote: post #317
verisimi wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. Sorry you think its a shallow view! but I thank you for your thoughts. I have done some plumbing of my own - I can personally verify that I never felt comfortable - always contorted! Managers/foremen etc are asses the world over. I was really addressing the work. And I thought I picked a pretty unpleasant example in dirty toilets! I contrast the work you do with work I have done. I was making a moral poin…

> I helped the fat cats get a little fatter. I think that is just the way of the world, especially in America. Even though I have worked in fields that produce a more "tangible" product, I can't say that I have contributed or helped much of anything. And now I'm in my 30s without an education and I only have experience doing things that I never want to do again. Bosses are always terrible, but it's a little different…

I for one fancy doing something totally different - producing some of my own food, in a more natural environment. No deferred joy - more immediacy, living closer to nature, etc. Your user name makes me wonder if you would find that more fulfilling too? :)

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#367

Post by redisman »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #158

Slightly off topic but does it really feel difficult to keep up with tech skills? I find it's extremely easy. Front end guys seem to have it harder, but as a data scientist I don't feel I need to learn much at all. In the past couple years it's been... shap... and that's it? I don't feel the need to bother with any of the neural net stuff.

Even on the frontend it’s kind of overblown. If you’re at a stable-ish company you learn react and a few missing pieces from the JS stdlib but most other stuff is already set up or you Google how to set it up and move on.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#368

Post by rowanajmarshall »

Trasmatta wrote: post #267
rowanajmarshall wrote: post #260

For me it's becoming a barista. Something social, where I'm not sitting all day. Something with an artisanal bend to it, that can be appreciated by more people than a handful of your coworkers.

Out of curiosity, have you worked a service job in the past? If not, you might underestimating how much of an absolute nightmare they can be.

I have, but in a very small town where everyone knew everyone so it wasn't as bad as I've heard it can get. I fully get it's not realistic and would have massive downsides, but still.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#369

Post by Karrot_Kream »

jseban wrote: post #273
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

Yeah but even if it seems more comfortable to sit at a desk, it's much worse for your health, and also will make you feel worse already at the end of the day, so as a desk worker you're basically required to spend another hour after work every day exercising to make up for that. While the people doing the landscaping already got their exercise and fresh air.

Huh? Tell me that when you're painting the underside of a desk for 5 coats on a concrete shop floor and you don't have the clearance to sit up. Try installing a toilet when you have just enough crawl space next to the water inlet line to fit 3 handspans. Try sitting in the bed of a truck in the summer heat making sure that your ratchets are tied properly. As someone who grew up in a blue collar area, RSI is extremely common. Tennis elbow, worn knees, hip problems, back issues. That kind of hard labor is easy until your mid 20s and then turns more into a liability than exercise. You can always run on a treadmill to lose weight, but no amount of running will repair your knee.
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