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Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

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Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#311

Post by nkozyra »

hahajk wrote: post #286
nkozyra wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

Did this behavior start with the coda of Office Space or has it always been a thing? A big aspect of Marxism is that labor has been alienated from their production in the age of industrialization, so I’d say it’s been a thing for a while.

I've read a lot of Marx and I think this is ultimately less about alienation and more about guilt.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#313

Post by mschuster91 »

elorant wrote: post #266
bmitc wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trades scratch a similar itch to development in some ways - you're working with a set of tools I'd say the major difference is that in the trades, the tools actually work.

Sure, and they can also chop your hand off or otherwise seriously harm you.

Fuck up something handling PII and the GDPR fines can seriously harm you...

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#314

Post by lotsofpulp »

wbl wrote: post #263
bmitc wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trades scratch a similar itch to development in some ways - you're working with a set of tools I'd say the major difference is that in the trades, the tools actually work.

Having just had fun with replacing a bathroom door knob that involved far more power tools than expected I'm not sure I can agree.

The tools might work. But then you discover the plumber from 20 years ago did something crazy. Or the wiring makes a left turn in the space between 1st and 2nd floor for some reason. Thee dimmer switch that was $15 and should have taken 10 min to install actually does not have enough clearance behind it because a drain pipe is there, and so you need a special smaller size electrical box or you need to cut holes in the wall. Etc, etc.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#315

Post by garbagetime »

enraged_camel wrote: post #126
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

Yeah, I genuinely do not understand what it is that drives people like the reddit OP to think that tradespeople somehow have it better than software folks. It's like they have never actually paid attention to how absolutely grueling plumbing/roofing/fencing/etc. is. "Constant need to stay up to date" is actually one of the things I really like about this field, because it's one of the things that prevents the work fr…

Some people enjoy hard work

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#316

Post by taxcoder »

indymike wrote: post #254
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, owning things is definitely the best job, regardless of what industry you're in. It's not the typical path for any job, though.

> Well, yes, owning things is definitely the best job, regardless of what industry you're in. Unpopular opinion: being an owner is hard. You think it's easy until $80k doesn't come in on time and you have to make payroll by mortgaging your house, or you have to wake up at 2 am because a developer got arrested by INS (even though they were a US citizen), or you have to deal with a $150K medical bill that your insuranc…

I wish I remembered where I read this: "The definition of business is problems. The people who are the most successful are the ones who have the most fun solving them."

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#317

Post by lokalfarm »

verisimi wrote: post #289
lokalfarm wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very shallow view of what it means to be working as a plumber... As someone who spent a couple years doing commercial plumbing: 1) You are lifting very heavy 10-20ft long sticks of cast iron pipe, often 10+ ft in the air. There is technology to aid with this (scissor lifts) but it is brutal work. 2) You spend a lot of time in the air - on ladders or lifts - often overhanging the edges. You are constantly dr…

I hear you. Sorry you think its a shallow view! but I thank you for your thoughts. I have done some plumbing of my own - I can personally verify that I never felt comfortable - always contorted! Managers/foremen etc are asses the world over. I was really addressing the work. And I thought I picked a pretty unpleasant example in dirty toilets! I contrast the work you do with work I have done. I was making a moral poin…

> I helped the fat cats get a little fatter.

I think that is just the way of the world, especially in America. Even though I have worked in fields that produce a more "tangible" product, I can't say that I have contributed or helped much of anything. And now I'm in my 30s without an education and I only have experience doing things that I never want to do again.

Bosses are always terrible, but it's a little different when your life is literally at stake. I've had "old school" foremen who want to sit and call you a pu$$y because you don't want to stand (without a harness) on a flimsy piece of wood over a six story shaft, cutting and then brazing 8" copper pipe. It's also harder when you don't have dedicated recruiting networks and the ability to WFH like many do in tech/SWE.

(Just my perspective! I appreciate the discussion.)

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#318

Post by Apocryphon »

e4e78a06 wrote: post #279
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar idea was expressed by Marx, who referred to it as estranged labour . Forgive the lengthy quote: > the object which labor produces – labor's product – confronts it as something alien, as a power independent of the producer. The product of labor is labor which has been embodied in an object, which has become material: it is the objectification of labor. Labor’s realization is its objectification. Under these…

Very ironic that the USSR ended up forcing most people into state-chosen jobs. I think it's nice to think of some ideal future where everyone works on what they want to work on but society needs people to do the dirty work that nobody wants to do. Janitor, garbageman, sewer maintenance, warehouse worker, etc. A lot of Marx's ideas are just ideas, not anything that could ever be realized in the real world.

Whatever you can say of his prescriptions, many of his descriptions and diagnoses are relevant.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#320

Post by throwaway675309 »

jseban wrote: post #273
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

Yeah but even if it seems more comfortable to sit at a desk, it's much worse for your health, and also will make you feel worse already at the end of the day, so as a desk worker you're basically required to spend another hour after work every day exercising to make up for that. While the people doing the landscaping already got their exercise and fresh air.

Did you stop to think before typing this comment or do you just fade in and out?

There's no requirement to sit at a desk, you can use a standing desk or in my case I actually use a treadmill at varying heights inclines and speeds while typing in a computer using an economic keyboard.

I did some landscaping work during summers while in university and it can be absolute hell on your joints - now stack that 40 hours a week for years.

Yeah... have fun with that.

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