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Does the human lifespan have a limit?

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Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#161

Post by bcgraham »

Banana699 wrote: post #137
dmd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose, right now, normal life expectancy was 200 years. How would you feel about a new program being rolled out to impose disease and death on everyone over 80?

This seems fallacious to me, the scenario you describe has zero opportunity cost for being alive till 200, it's free. Assuming no afterlife, you gain nothing by artificially limiting your lifespan to less than half its amount. But in reality, there's opportunity cost to trying to extend your lifespan, it's all the money and attention and other resources that could have gone to improving other much more certain-reward…

If opportunity cost means anything at all, “not extending one’s life” must have a truly dizzying opportunity cost.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#162

Post by D-Coder »

thechao wrote: post #88
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #86

I remember reading a book ( Protector , by Larry Niven[0]), in which the protagonist (a "proto-Belter"), eats a sweet potato, turns into an ugly-ass duck, and lives forever. After about 25,000 years or so, his brain becomes "full," and he can't remember stuff, anymore. [ DISCLAIMER: It's been a long time since I read the book, so some liberty has been taken in the Cliff's Notes version] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

I’ve read Protector many times over the years, and this summary misses only one thing: he’s a superstrong duck.

It also misses that it's not an _ordinary_ sweet potato.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#163

Post by trendoid »

qvrjuec wrote: post #134
superjan wrote: post #51

In a Wondrium lecture on genetics and evolution, this question was also discussed. A compelling (but unproven) explanation for our “age limit” is that any genetic trait that improves your chances before reproduction at the cost of your chances after reproduction (and raising your offspring) will benefit your genes and thus will “win” in the long run. If this is an important effect, it will be very hard to defeat.

It's pretty intuitive to also consider limits on lifespan as a function of conserving resources on a family or tribal level. At a certain point, the utility a population could gain from labor or knowledge of older members is outweighed by the burden of taking care of them and providing for them.

Yes but from what i recall, evolution doesn't work like that at the level of population.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#164

Post by thaw13579 »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #107
paulcole wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole Blue Zones thing is pretty funny. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone Only Loma Linda seems like it might not be the result of fraud — and that’s only because it’s a haven for a kooky religion. The whole life-extension thing is funny. I wonder if people realize what the world is going to be like 70+ years from now and how miserable it’s going to be for anyone over 100 who’s not rich? I think about my 95…

Oh man, you wouldn't believe the flak I got for arguing that 90+ year olds wanting to see their family during COVID restrictions was actually a rational decision for them. They had a much higher annual risk of dying anyway than they did of catching and dying from COVID given the prevalence rates at the time and assuming standard family gathering sizes. I'm not even sure their risk was strictly greater given the affec…

It's only rational if you ignore the secondary effects on others. It could increase community spread and ICU usage and thus increase the risk of death for others who didn't make that choice. The other likely causes of death (heart disease, cancer, and stroke) do not spread.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#165

Post by xeromal »

jmchuster wrote: post #155
Enginerrrd wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, you wouldn't believe the flak I got for arguing that 90+ year olds wanting to see their family during COVID restrictions was actually a rational decision for them. They had a much higher annual risk of dying anyway than they did of catching and dying from COVID given the prevalence rates at the time and assuming standard family gathering sizes. I'm not even sure their risk was strictly greater given the affec…

Not all forms of death are necessarily equivalent. By all accounts, covid seems like a relatively long and painful one, slowly suffocating to death.

I think dying alone is much worse than dying with your family suffocating to death.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#166

Post by BossingAround »

axiosgunnar wrote: post #98
dmd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose, right now, normal life expectancy was 200 years. How would you feel about a new program being rolled out to impose disease and death on everyone over 80?

Good argument, in the spirit of the reversal test https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversal_test

> Alfred Nordmann argues that the reversal test merely erects a straw-man argument in favour of enhancement.

Yes, basically as a fellow commenter argues. Thank you for the link.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#167

Post by xeromal »

markb139 wrote: post #139
snowwrestler wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great viewpoint emotionally, but physically you can’t do at 50 what you could do at 25. There’s a reason pretty much every sport (even golf!) has a “masters” class for older players.

I’m in my 50’s and I’m a much better golfer than I was in my 20’s. Partly club technology has enabled me to hit the ball more consistently and partly I now don’t try and hit the cover off the ball each shot :)

I don't think the post is talking about golf. If you look at physically demanding sports, most players don't last past 40 unless they're an incredible athlete.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#168

Post by gratalis »

snowwrestler wrote: post #96
reverend_gonzo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. In my opinion, life doesn’t really start until you’re 25 or so, maybe even 30. The first 18 years are generally spent at home, following other peoples rules, and learning how to get by. The next few years you get your independence and start finding your place in the world. If you went to college, then you enter the workforce and are probably getting by, still finding your footing. Then the real fun s…

This is a great viewpoint emotionally, but physically you can’t do at 50 what you could do at 25. There’s a reason pretty much every sport (even golf!) has a “masters” class for older players.

This is incorrect or at least incorrectly stated with respect to the word "you". I didn't start running regularly until my late 40's and I loathed nearly every step for the first year but my fitness and enjoyment levels slowly improved especially after discovering trail running. I started participating in ultra trail races after a couple years and found a wonderful community of people enjoying an activity all around me I didn't even know existed. Now, 10 years later, I'm the fittest I've ever been and far more fit than the vast majority of 25 year olds.

Am I going to win races against people half my age who are in peak fitness for their age group? No, of course not. But I can physically do far more at 57 than what I could do at 25 with respect to running. Many people can alter the course of their health trajectories at nearly any age but it requires consistent effort and often ignoring the messages of vested societal interests telling them otherwise.

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#169

Post by gmadsen »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #152
henryw wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr. Sinclair's book Lifespan ( https://www.amazon.com/Lifespan-Why-Age_and-Dont-Have/dp/150... ) talks about extending the health span of people. I've been personally taking 1g/day of NMN for almost 3 years now, and I feel like aging has paused or is going backwards slowly.

I am willing to wager that Dr Sinclair is just peddling nonsense to make his million bucks and exit quickly.

considering he leads a research group at Harvard that publishes in high profile journals, you could actually look at the peer reviewed research, instead of relying on your "hunch"

Re: Does the human lifespan have a limit?

#170

Post by School-Cotton »

Flankk wrote: post #150
liquidise wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither commenter was advocating for having it both ways. I don't even find them at odds with one another. I happen to agree with both assertions. OP: "millenia old book makes claim about life that is empirically uncontroverted in 2022" – i agree Parent: "the bible is a collection of stories and contradictions should be expected" – i also agree The first half of your comment could indeed be relevant in the right disc…

Quoted post unavailable.

Nobody in this subthread even claimed to be Christian, so I don’t know what your point is.
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