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Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

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Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#51

Post by tluyben2 »

jcelerier wrote: post #35
tluyben2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't shit on electron in general, some tech people do. We know what our computers can do when optimally programmed and there they are wasting cycles on rendering badly built web apps. I believe we should be shitting on badly written apps: we can see how a really well written very complex electron app like vscode behaves: then we install some simple crappy app that is not even in the same universe complexity w…

> we can see how a really well written very complex electron app like vscode behaves yes, very much worse than the average Qt app in my experience in terms of responsivity, load time and general UI performance

Obviously native does better but people are not writing native apps and if we have to put up with that, it seems time to hold those packaged web apps to some basic standards. I rather have a QT app any day, but I do not work alone and picking software that my colleagues do not use is a continues fight. I worked in vim (with a bunch of plugins) only until begin of 2020 but working in a team just makes that painful in communication and working with some team members.

So I stopped somewhat shouting at the moon and only shouting at the even worse than bad stuff we use. Like chat clients that take up 3gb after running for a few days.

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#52

Post by chadcmulligan »

hestefisk wrote: post #49
chadcmulligan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you find Delphi jobs in Europe? I'm in australia but still do delphi.

Generally firms that work with industrial automation where speed and efficiency are key elements. In wind turbine manufacturing, for instance, I know a lot of firms still use Delphi.

Oh ok, same here then, I'm working in manufacturing, also in medical systems here, there are a few I know of.

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#53

Post by pjmlp »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #52
hestefisk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally firms that work with industrial automation where speed and efficiency are key elements. In wind turbine manufacturing, for instance, I know a lot of firms still use Delphi.

Oh ok, same here then, I'm working in manufacturing, also in medical systems here, there are a few I know of.

Medical systems here as well, laboratory automation, for example https://www.lab-services.nl

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#54

Post by pjmlp »

jchw wrote: post #50
pjmlp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it was there, regardless.

Citation needed? At least in actual motif. Can’t find any information about either thing.

I love this seeing is believing in tech.

DPI independence was already supported, because each X Windows terminal was different beast, hence layout managers and multiple coordinate systems.

"Common Desktop Environment: Internationalization Programmer's Guide"

https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/COSEPR...

"Developing Applications for the Display PostScript System"

https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/AQ15WB...

Coordinate handling chapters.

"Common Desktop Environment: Application Builder User's Guide"

Attaching objects chapter for layouts

https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/APPBLD...

"Common Desktop Environment: Programmer's Overview"

https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/PROG_O...

"Common Desktop Environment: Style Guide and Certification Checklist"

Access and the Style Guide chapter

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19683-01/816-0284/6m6phpvqa/inde...

And here is some of the stuff being done back in the day, https://park.org/Guests/Trace/pavilion/unixshar.htm

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#55

Post by jcelerier »

emteycz wrote: post #46
7thaccount wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I always shudder when colleagues recommend it. Last I checked it took up an enormous amount of resources for an editor.

My VSCode takes considerably less RAM than Webstorm on the same project - and yet IMHO VSCode does it better.

I mean, "better than a bloated java app" is not really a compliment is it ? Every time I try to use jetbrains IDE I am just unable to given how slow everything feels, my hands start shaking from the stress in merely a few minutes

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#56

Post by pjmlp »

branko_d wrote: post #41
R0b0t1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delphi is still wildly popular especially outside of the English speaking software development world. It's a bit strange to see. The English speaking developers outside of the US are likely to be following US industry trends, but Delphi and other languages are quite entrenched in industrial programming and custom ORM designs in South America, Africa, and Eastern Europe. Something really nice about Delphi is it compil…

Anders Hejlsberg is a world treasure as far as I'm concerned. After basically single-handedly creating Torbo Pascal, he was the architect of Delphi, C# and now TypeScript. I don't think that anybody touched the lives of so many programmers quite like he did.

I owe to him, having learned that systems programming doesn't need to be C like unsafe, thanks to having learned my ways into it via TP 3.0 - 6.0, before meeting C.

Having done Spectrum coding before also helped.

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#57

Post by pjmlp »

tluyben2 wrote: post #51
jcelerier wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can see how a really well written very complex electron app like vscode behaves yes, very much worse than the average Qt app in my experience in terms of responsivity, load time and general UI performance

Obviously native does better but people are not writing native apps and if we have to put up with that, it seems time to hold those packaged web apps to some basic standards. I rather have a QT app any day, but I do not work alone and picking software that my colleagues do not use is a continues fight. I worked in vim (with a bunch of plugins) only until begin of 2020 but working in a team just makes that painful in…

Be the change you want the world to be.

The only Electron app I use by option is VSCode due to its Rust support, and work stuff I don't have a say on what gets used.

And even so, if there is a Web alternative to the Electron package, it will run on a browser tab, done deal.

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#58

Post by pjmlp »

emteycz wrote: post #46
7thaccount wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I always shudder when colleagues recommend it. Last I checked it took up an enormous amount of resources for an editor.

My VSCode takes considerably less RAM than Webstorm on the same project - and yet IMHO VSCode does it better.

Load VSCode with the same amount of plugins, and measure all of the out of process executables that make part of the experience and then you will see how much RAM is actually being consumed.

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#59

Post by pjmlp »

thought_alarm wrote: post #28

Borland's VCL was a great achievement that brought some much needed cohesiveness and sanity to Win32 development in a way that Microsoft was never able to do. I've always found it interesting that OpenStep/Cocoa and VCL were released at about the same time in the mid-90s, as they're both so similar. Even though I was a complete C++ snob at the time, I had to admit that working with Delphi/Pascal projects was surprisi…

OWL did it first, also from Borland.

To this day Microsoft sucks in what concerns C++ frameworks for Windows development, with C++/CX and WinRT they kind of finally nailed it, but then a group managed to bomb that effort. Most likely the same kind of devs that also bombed Longhorn efforts.

Re: Delphi Timewarp – 1995 and Delphi’s Mythical Origins

#60

Post by emteycz »

jcelerier wrote: post #55
emteycz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My VSCode takes considerably less RAM than Webstorm on the same project - and yet IMHO VSCode does it better.

I mean, "better than a bloated java app" is not really a compliment is it ? Every time I try to use jetbrains IDE I am just unable to given how slow everything feels, my hands start shaking from the stress in merely a few minutes

Well and what editor can you use that isn't either a bloated Electron app, a bloated Java app, or a bloated C++ app?

Comparison to its next best competitor is the only thing that makes sense IMHO.

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