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Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

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Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#321

Post by colinmcd »

ignoramous wrote: post #310
msully4321 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked a bit about this in my release day talk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRZ3o-NsU_4&t=8151s ), but: * Every edgedb type has a postgres table * "single" properties and links are stored as columns in that table (links as the uuid of the target) * "multi" properties/links are stored as a link table So it's basically just translated to a relational database in normal form

> So it's basically just translated to a relational database in normal form So... just an ORM ;)

In the sense that "object-relational mapping" is happening, then sure. The problem with the "ORM" term is that it comes loaded with a bunch of preconceptions that don't apply to EdgeDB. EdgeQL is a full query language with a standard library, grammar, and feature parity with SQL (almost). We've got a binary protocol. You use EdgeDB without ever needing to think about the layer beneath it—totally non-leaky. It's also not a library, which most people assume when you say "ORM".

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#322

Post by colinmcd »

c4m wrote: post #318
msully4321 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked a bit about this in my release day talk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRZ3o-NsU_4&t=8151s ), but: * Every edgedb type has a postgres table * "single" properties and links are stored as columns in that table (links as the uuid of the target) * "multi" properties/links are stored as a link table So it's basically just translated to a relational database in normal form

Thanks, this is helpful! I think what I'm trying to understand is this: if I use EdgeDB in production, how often will I end up dropping down to the SQL level to debug things? If I'm trying to debug a slow query, can I do it at the EdgeDB level? Or will I have to open a PostgreSQL terminal, see how things are laid out there, run EXPLAINs, check the slow query log, and so on? When I use ORMs, the answer to this is "pre…

The goal is to never drop down to SQL. If there's something you can express in SQL but can't express in EdgeQL, it's a bug.

We're working on proper query profiling now, but in the meantime the "slow query" problem you see with ORMs happens quite rarely with EdgeQL. For starters a lot of ORM performance issues are causes by the fact that they secretly do a bunch of roundtrips under the hood. EdgeQL queries compile to a single SQL query always. Also, since we target Postgres exclusively, we can produce queries that take full advantage of its (rather preposterous) power and performance. We extensively test the performance of things like extremely deep/wide fetching, lots of nested & complex filter expressions, computed properties, subqueries, polymorphics, etc. Obviously nothing is 100% but we're pretty confident in saying that EdgeQL performance is good.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#323

Post by ignoramous »

colinmcd wrote: post #321
ignoramous wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it's basically just translated to a relational database in normal form So... just an ORM ;)

In the sense that "object-relational mapping" is happening, then sure. The problem with the "ORM" term is that it comes loaded with a bunch of preconceptions that don't apply to EdgeDB. EdgeQL is a full query language with a standard library, grammar, and feature parity with SQL (almost). We've got a binary protocol. You use EdgeDB without ever needing to think about the layer beneath it—totally non-leaky. It's also…

Having worked on databases, I am not the one to discount the effort that has gone into building EdgeDB. I was but jokingly referring to this: https://www.edgedb.com/_images/_blog/40fc2a2a81483bb0979c96d...

Btw, if you folks have time, then EdgeDB should consider penning posts like the ones timescale has been doing for 3 years or so, in its march to industry leadership.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#324

Post by Too »

gervwyk wrote: post #32
RedCrowbar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(EdgeDB CTO here) In a classic relational model everything is a tuple containing scalar values. Graph-relational extends the relational data model in three ways: - every relation always has a global immutable key independent of data (explicit autoincrement keys aren't needed) - this enables us to add a "reference type", which is essentially a pointer to some other record (i.e. a foreign key) - attributes can be set-v…

I’ve always wished for MongoDB to have a “deepFind”, so that when I fetch a document, it will fetch the nested relations also instead of doing an aggression to do the lookup. Feel like if their objectID only included a collection name reference then somehow it should be possible. Perhaps a depth parameter would use be useful for more relational data. Congrats on the milestone! Will definitively have a look at edgeDB.

There used to be a DBLink data type containing both collection and id. But without any additional features using it.

It was considered bad practice and eventually got deprecated. Since 99% of the time the collection link in a given attribute is fixed and known in advance so it’s just duplicate information.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#325

Post by spqrtan117 »

dragonsh wrote: post #296
spqrtan117 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, there is, basically, no way to work with Postgres directly, as well as installing EdgeDB with the use of the existing Postgres installation and its data, right? Feels like a Postgres is a prisoner of the EdgeDB :)

If you look at the code they used to have —postgres-dsn URL, now they changed it to —backend-dsn. If you go beyond the marketing, edgedb is a postgres connection pool+orm combined together with a query language (its a huge work in itself and commendable given it takes away many dependencies and provide a consistent developer experience). It’s leveraging postgresql server which is the true database providing ACID comp…

Hi there! Yes, I do understand and that the EdgeDB is "a postgres connection pool+orm combined together" and the work guys did is incredible. And I do beleive it will find its niche. But for me, personaly, the idea of "postgres is now a black box for you, don't even try to go deeper into it" stops me from digging into EdgeDB right away (the tooling is amazing! migrations!) and even trying it in our production for our enterprize clients. Probably, with time, when edgeql can fully replace sql and plpgsql, we could say that EdgeDB is ready for everything. BTW, @RedCrowbar, how can I call a udf or procedure (written in sql/plpgsql) from edgeql? I didn't find it in the docs.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#326

Post by tylergetsay »

RedCrowbar wrote: post #201
eyelidlessness wrote: post #197

I’ll add to the positivity: this is the first time I’ve ever found a “we can do better than SQL” compelling. It’s easy to understand what it’s doing with a variety of known quantities. It solves a difficult problem elegantly. It has 100% overlap with the goals I want it to have. It’s designed to be usable with minimal fuss. It does really a good job of portraying itself as magic (it will be awesome to use) without po…

> I’ll add to the positivity Thank you! > Serializable transactions are expensive, and that deserves to be an explicit caveat. Not everyone knows this, and it’s an important thing to put up front. We've not seen a major difference in our benchmarks (though maybe our benchmarks are wrong :-)). EdgeDB tends to produce very short transactions, so that helps. EdgeDB also knows if your statements are read-only or not, so…

Can I use this ability to direct the query to a read only replica or will EdgeDB handle this common scaling use case some other way?

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#327

Post by RedCrowbar »

spqrtan117 wrote: post #325
dragonsh wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the code they used to have —postgres-dsn URL, now they changed it to —backend-dsn. If you go beyond the marketing, edgedb is a postgres connection pool+orm combined together with a query language (its a huge work in itself and commendable given it takes away many dependencies and provide a consistent developer experience). It’s leveraging postgresql server which is the true database providing ACID comp…

Hi there! Yes, I do understand and that the EdgeDB is "a postgres connection pool+orm combined together" and the work guys did is incredible. And I do beleive it will find its niche. But for me, personaly, the idea of "postgres is now a black box for you, don't even try to go deeper into it" stops me from digging into EdgeDB right away (the tooling is amazing! migrations!) and even trying it in our production for our…

There is no way to call UDF SQL (or PL/pgSQL) functions from EdgeDB, because there is no way to _define_ or manage them. The only place that is allowed to do this is the standard library (and, in the near future, extensions).

We realize that the database must be extensible and flexible, so non-EdgeQL UDF will become a reality (and if things work out the way we hope they will, they'll be amazing and far beyond what you can do with plpgsql).

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#328

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

colinmcd wrote: post #162
TheSpiciestDev wrote: post #125

I feel like a graph database is a solution to an issue I've faced (and, continue to face) and it may just be because that I haven't spun one up and tried or that the documentation/examples don't stick out. But could someone confirm my feeling? If my feeling is correct, I'd enjoy verifying it with EdgeDB or the like. My example/requirement: I have a user wanting to find best-matching blog posts. Every post is tagged w…

EdgeDB employee here. I couldn't have asked for a better question to demonstrate the power of subqueries! Here's how I'd do this in EdgeQL: with tag_names := {"angular", "nestjs", "cypress", "nx"}, select BlogPost { title, tag_names := .tags.name, match_count := count((select .tags filter .name in tag_names)) } order by .match_count desc; Which would give you a result like this: [ { title: 'All the frameworks!', tag_…

Do you have any timeline on when i can use this with rust?

Found this: https://github.com/edgedb/edgedb-rust

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#329

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

Any timelines on when i can use this with rust? I love this syntax.

Edit: Wow, after starting to read the book you guys have done a fantastic job of making it a joy to learn. Learning a database technology by following dracula? amazing.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE giving this first class support in rust. The select statments reminds me of structs and you even have enums.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#330

Post by RedCrowbar »

tylergetsay wrote: post #326
RedCrowbar wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ll add to the positivity Thank you! > Serializable transactions are expensive, and that deserves to be an explicit caveat. Not everyone knows this, and it’s an important thing to put up front. We've not seen a major difference in our benchmarks (though maybe our benchmarks are wrong :-)). EdgeDB tends to produce very short transactions, so that helps. EdgeDB also knows if your statements are read-only or not, so…

Can I use this ability to direct the query to a read only replica or will EdgeDB handle this common scaling use case some other way?

Yes, the plan is to allow sending read-only queries to read replicas automatically. This isn’t implemented yet, but all the requisite pieces are there.
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