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Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

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Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#51

Post by tomlockwood »

ahh wrote: post #43
tomlockwood wrote: post #25

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

If only 1/5th of those prisoners are there for drug-crime (and I assume you believe as I do that much drug-related crime isn't worth the arrest?) then isn't that in fact evidence that our population commits substantially more _real_ crime than in other countries? If so, then yes, let's lock them up. "Everyone steals" is not a good defense to stealing.

> "Everyone steals" is not a good defense to stealing.

I'm not defending stealing, I'm saying for all crime in America, the deterrent of jail doesn't appear to be working. That button has already been pressed, hard.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#52

Post by otikik »

twofornone wrote: post #29
_trampeltier wrote: post #13

Uh who could have this seen comming?!? Thing like this start to happen, if the gap between rich and poor becomes bigger and bigger. The next logic step would be just hijack random people.

The vast majority of these people are not stealing out of desperation. This is just the intersection of shitty culture and insufficient enforcement. >They come in every day, sometimes twice a day, with laundry bags and just load up on stuff,” the Post quoted a store employee saying We've all seen the videos. When egregious behavior like this goes unpunished and is publicized, there's no shortage of unscrupulous thiev…

It sounds like you are saying that your sources for this claim:

> The vast majority of these people are not stealing out of desperation

Is that “you have seen some videos”.

From where I stand, that doesn’t look like a very strong base on which to build upon.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#53

Post by louwrentius »

Current events, especially in America, has created a situation where I think theft has become ethical to sustain oneself.

They may let us eat cake, but we may opt to eat the rich instead.

Maybe you don't trust the stories over on /r/antiwork or /r/workreform but I think if even 1% is true, America is rapidly spiralling into a direction where a society can't be sustained.

For a large part of the USA population, young people have no hope of a beter future. They may even only have hope not to die and just to exist.

A home, decent wages, maybe a family one day, are probably for ever out of reach. Unbelievable for the IT tech bro for sure, with 6-figure salaries abound.

Maybe it will not be so bad after all, but I'm not so sure, to be frank.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#54

Post by GiorgioG »

coryrc wrote: post #40
ardit33 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. There are actually human costs to it. My parents are old (in their 70s), and they are lucky to have a CVS near by where they can walk and get their medicine and basic needs. Pharmacies and grocery stores being forced to close due to unchecked theft inflict pain and major lowering of quality of life to people around the neighborhood, and especially to people that can't just drive to the next store. Als…

We live in a democracy, more or less, which allows the majority to dictate what is acceptable in society. The majority has decided that a subset of society is not beholden to the laws the rest of us are. Jim Crow laws were unjust and it was the victims who had to fight it. Elderly people have most of the wealth in this country, if they've got a problem then they should put that wealth to work convincing a majority of…

> Elderly people have most of the wealth in this country, if they've got a problem then they should put that wealth to work convincing a majority of their views.

The elderly people with this wealth don't care - they can afford to live in places where this isn't a problem. Everyone else (young and old alike) can take a hike as far as these rich old folks are concerned.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#55

Post by zbentley »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #38
ameminator wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if the people running the store can't profitably operate (due to theft or other factors), why should they operate? Why should the owners of that supermarket go into ruin just to give you another shopping option? Why is it their responsibility to keep you fed at all?

Why should firefighters put out fires? They make no money from it. It costs them money in equipment wear, water usage, etc.!

I'm sympathetic to your grandparent statement (closing stores can really screw their patrons), but the comparison to firefighters is apples to oranges. Firefighting is a civic utility-everyone contributes a little bit for the service. Grocery stores are not, in most locales.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#56

Post by 14 »

Let’s continue our wage disparity and see how that Plays out. We have rising homeless rates it can only get worst. If I am already homeless I may as well attempt to shoplift as jail is 3 hots and a cot as they say.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#57

Post by MattGaiser »

tomlockwood wrote: post #25

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

Consider another few possibilities.

1. Americans are just more likely to be criminals.

2. Other nations may be equally or even more ineffective at tackling crime.

The assumption that jail doesn't work rests on the assumption that other nations track crime as effectively and that their people are equally criminal.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#58

Post by tomlockwood »

bitshiftfaced wrote: post #48
tomlockwood wrote: post #25

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

For that conclusion, wouldn't you need to show that the USA has a higher rate of shoplifting and also a higher rate of incarcerated shoplifters per capita?

My conclusion is only that the harsher punishment button has, overall, already been pushed in America. This isn't an argument about shoplifting specifically.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#59

Post by WalterGR »

Some companies are lying about why they’re closing stores.

For example, Walgreens announced in 2019 that it would shutter 200 stores. Blaming shoplifting sounds like some serious Chamber of Commerce spin to direct attention away from them abandoning locations and the jobs that go with them, and to give ammunition to pro-corporate pro-policing factions.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#60

Post by glogla »

mulletbum wrote: post #35
ejb999 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so because Jeff Bezo's is rich, I can steal?

No because a class structure only has rich and poor with less and less middle ground, stealing becomes necessity to some. Even if immoral.

Is stealing from someone like Walmart, who post record profits every year, pay employees so little they are on food stamps, engage in union busting etc etc really immoral?
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