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Discord is a black hole for information

knockout.chat

281–290 of 396 posts

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but good luck if you ever want to leave Discord or do anything with the data. TBH it’s kind of weird to hear someone bemoan running a raspberry pi on hn. You could also use Digital Ocean for $5 a month, I think they have a one click Discourse install. I guess running your own stuff is old fashioned.

This is the incessant cycle I've been seeing a lot of for the past ten years: 1. Depend on proprietary service that silos data 2. Service changes price or shuts down or does something unpopular 3. People migrate to a new product baiting people with a free offering 4. Go to 1 We never should have left self-hosted bulletin boards and IRC. Hosting is cheaper and better than ever.

the free cycle is the worst, vc money screws over a lot of people that could just be running traditional businesses - there are good institutional shake ups as a result sometimes, but then the new players ultimately become what they sought to disrupt

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#282

As a maintainer of a small open source project I have to disagree. The hurdle for someone to join Discord and ask a question is much lower than signing up to a custom forum and posting there. I also love interacting with people that use my stuff. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy to see that people are actually using it. I can see the other side of course. There are a few things that are repeated questions or useful conte…

I'm a discord user. I'm in several servers. I'm even Nitro. ...and I'm probably not going to join your server to ask questions or get help. If I can't get help via your git platform or shoot off an email, I'm probably just going to not use the software. Gitter, for all it's flaws, is ok for this case. The effort to join is very low. Discord is a whole beast. Every server has a gauntlet to join with a dozen bots and c…

Although there are certainly some servers with gauntlets to join, I think that's only for some really huge ones that have scaling issues.

I have no issue joining a Discord for technical assistance.

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#283
As someone who was a prolific user of both I'm going to come to the defense of Discord here.

First let me say that yes there is some valid critism to be had. Mostly around information preservation, lack of indexing by search engines, barrier to entry, those kinds of things. I agree that those can make Discord a bad platform for a random technical project to use as a support forum / bug tracker / log. (though you can always write a bot for that).

However, with respect, some comments (not all!) do feel a bit like people are simply getting older and blaming technology for what are really demographic changes.

Consider this comment by Azalea on the first page has a quite a few people agreeing with it, it says

> And without going all good-old days Internet you damn whippersnappers, I think the move towards chat-room style dialogues also signifies a cultural shift towards bite-sized content and quick, shallow, generally meaningless interactions. I have made a grand total of one friend on Discord servers after posting compulsively and replying to a lot of people. Social interactions on the Internet don't really have the same weight and permanence that they used to.

which wasn't really my experience on Discord, but then it also goes on to say

> I miss the old days of logging into my favorite Counter-Strike: Source servers and interacting with the regulars there. Everyone on VOIP playing the same game can lead to bonding experiences, and I made a fair bit of friends on those servers. Now with public matchmaking, that old-school magic has mostly disappeared.

Which to me is that quick-fire social interaction they seemingly called shallow and meaningless. This struck me as odd because having lived trough the rise of social media and matchmaking Discord feels like a return to this old 'social' internet. Especially during these last few years, It's been great for my social life. I've made new friends and reconnected with old ones. Just yesterday I visited a friend I met on Discord.

And I don't think I'm alone: plenty of people heavily use Discord for hanging out with friends, forming gaming groups, discussing and playing together. Everything that they say is lacking in the modern internet. And not just for gaming, There's plenty of LGBT+ spaces, location based spaces, or Maker spaces too.

But one thing I have noticed, is that at 28 years old I already skew old in most spaces. Because of that I'll generally avoid spaces that don't have a reasonable minimum age because I don't really care for hanging around in spaces dominated by teens. But for those teens, and once you find spaces that fit you, Discord is a great place for fostering _community_. In a way that games and IRC/forums used to provide when I was a teen, before social media and 'matchmaking' kind of scrubbed that from the mainstream for a while.

That's why I don't think the kinds of complaints given in the quotes is realy an issue of technology, but an issue of demographics and aging.

But maybe this is just me being an extrovert with ADHD liking the shiny chatterbox with cute emotes.

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#284
>for whatever reason server admins just love to split the community across what feels like hundreds of unnecessary channels no one will ever use or look at

I see this one a lot. Server Admins love to customize their servers and the primary way they do it is by adding a thousand channels with emoji names that make them difficult to link to, and dozens of bots that have marginal utility at best and are absolute noise factories at worst.

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know how to run pi, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for everyone else or even most of the people. Say you have some open source project and there is a need to have some form of communication. You can either jump through the hoops to host your own forum that you need to host and monitor. Now you are spending time you could be using to work on your project on sysadmin stuff. So either you pay for it, which feels…

a project other people use? they can google answers or use forum search… I’m not at their beck and call to answer questions in chat different people will like different things, but chat is transient an hour a month on server maintenance isn’t going to make or break anyone’s project, but if you don’t like tinkering with things there’s nothing wrong with that

>a project other people use? they can google answers or use forum search

can you give example?

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but good luck if you ever want to leave Discord or do anything with the data. TBH it’s kind of weird to hear someone bemoan running a raspberry pi on hn. You could also use Digital Ocean for $5 a month, I think they have a one click Discourse install. I guess running your own stuff is old fashioned.

This is the incessant cycle I've been seeing a lot of for the past ten years: 1. Depend on proprietary service that silos data 2. Service changes price or shuts down or does something unpopular 3. People migrate to a new product baiting people with a free offering 4. Go to 1 We never should have left self-hosted bulletin boards and IRC. Hosting is cheaper and better than ever.

and bulleting boards get corked on weekly basis.

why is a forum so much better than a chat and FAQ? I really can't see the problem you guys are trying to fix here.

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aaand it costs $100/mo vs Discord being free and everyone who joins needs to create new account per instance

You can host it for free if you set it up yourself, on your own server.

Please read the other comment threads that discuss this very thing

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#288

I'm a strong believer in Zulip with respect to a perfect mix between instant messaging and actually retaining information - functionality for a public export (can also restrict to specific channels), .e.g. https://leanprover-community.github.io/archive/ - in addition to the above, they are working on a guest mode, so you can read the discussions without logging in -- hopefully that would make it possible to index wit…

Zulip is great in concept, but the execution lets it down a little. "stream events" for example sounds awfully techie. The UI is not very pretty, fonts are small, etc. It's not clear where to start a chat in a brand new (or empty channel). If they focused on UI for a few months they'd have an easy winner, but in its current state I've had two separate non-techie teams look at it and recoil, and go back to Slack.

(Also, Zulip should try to compete against NextDoor - but to do so they'd need more control around content expiry once the storage limit was hit. No neighborhood is going to pay $7 per user, so the free offering needs to be compelling.)

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#289
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without nitro you can still nickname yourself.

People will still see the "server you're both in" and the game your currently playing, etc. Not good for work servers.

Wait. "Work servers"?

People use Discord for work chat?

Re: Discord is a black hole for information

#290
post #7

What is strange about Discord is this great discrepancy between the ones that love it and the ones that hate it. If I were to guess on the reason of why that might be it would be that Discord is probably really good for the people that are constantly on it, and don't really miss any communication going in. These people have probably been there for some time so they don't feel the problem of not knowing where the past…

I'm not sure if "click" is intentional wordplay or not, but if it isn't, the word is "clique" FYI. I'm also strongly of the opinion that tying core business functionality and information transfer to a third-party chat application is a massive footgun, and other than the fact that I use it out of business needs and not just for voice, I think s/Discord/Slack/g applies. I've both heard Discord described as "Slack for h…

I use Discord a lot and I agree that it's bad to use it for anything that you can't afford to suddenly lose (though people still use Google and Paypal too).

I do think a modern chat app is a value-add for fast moving (tech) companies. It is a nice hybrid between sending an email or knocking on someones door for a chat.

And as for the 'chat commands', they're usually just thin wrappers around the UNIX style tool. It's maybe not the most reliable way, but it does have a low barrier and there's not much lock-in. I used to have my server email myself whenever something needed my attention, but now it'd probably use a Discord bot for that.

However, I still wouldn't use it professionaly. the lack of self-hosting (privacy) and archival(bots can solve this pretty easilly) and restricting DMs (see slacks previous issues) makes Discord unsuitable.

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