Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The housing market needs more condos

urban.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 152 posts

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#61

Post by matsemann »

toast0 wrote: post #47
thisrobot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people think they don’t like condos. I currently live in a condo I own and while not without challenges overall I like it. I think people have unrealistic pessimism for hoas. In Seattle there are a ton for town homes being built, split lot and connected, most without any hoa. When they need work I bet you’ll see a lot of neighbors suing neighbors to fix and replace shared elements. I would never move into sha…

Shared living spaces require more coordination with neighbors, either directly or through an HOA. I don't like coordination, so shared spaces are not my preference. Having to run important repairs through a consensus process makes things take longer and become more expensive. If you can't coordinate with your neighbors directly, and resort to the courts, you're likely to end up in the same place when you can't coordi…

> I'm not going to pick a choice I've got enough information to determine I'll dislike.

You've been duped by the loud anti-HOA crowd and their scary stories, then. For most people, living in a condo is hassle-free. It's cheaper to be many when doing repairs. And someone else coordinates everything so one doesn't have to think about maintenance.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#62

Post by dec0dedab0de »

Condos have all the downsides of apartments and home ownership combined. They're the trolley of homes. Where the trolley has the downsides of the train and the bus combined.

With a condo I pay to own it, but also pay a monthly HOA fee forever, and I can only do approved modifications, but I'm also responsible for anything that breaks.

If I own property I should be allowed to install a giant mailbox on a whim, or break a whole in the wall because I dreamt there was treasure in it.

If I have to pay monthly and follow someone else's rules, I shouldn't have to finance and organize maintenance on my own.

As for the trolley analogy, it gives up the capacity of the train, but can't drive around an accident like a bus.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#63

Post by nicbou »

oldsecondhand wrote: post #31
massysett wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all you want is a roof over your head, why not rent? It's less risky. You may well find yourself caring if your condo loses 80% of its value if you need to sell it and you can't repay the loan.

Because rent would hurt you really bad when you're pensioner.

The alternative is to tie up a significant amount of money into a home. In Germany, ~12% of the purchase price is lost to fees. A lot more is lost to interest. Some more is lost to things that are normally included in your rent. Oh and you need to pay for maintenance. You need to take care of maintenance.

To illustrate my point, most German landlords fail to beat inflation. Some 20% are losing money.

The homeowners I know chose a slightly worse location, because they couldn't afford to buy in the places where they actually want to live. Since a mortgage is a 30 year affair, they bought more than they currently need. They end up paying more and getting less (for now). Inflation and rising rents will work in their favour eventually, but it's far enough in the future to make me question the move.

I meant to write about buying a home in Germany (I write about adulting in Germany), and the conclusions from my extensive research are the following:

- Buying a home is not a financial decision, it's a lifestyle decision

- Everyone who writes about buying a home has a financial incentive to recommend buying a home

- Home ownership is also throwing a lot of money away: closing fees, taxes, interests, maintenance, opportunity cost...

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#64

Post by neelc »

thisrobot wrote: post #41
sidlls wrote: post #18

No, it doesn’t. Or at least it depends on where. What the Bay Area needs is more genuine family housing, not small 2BR condos. If the condos were majority 3+ BR I’d have a different opinion. But they aren’t: it’s very hard to find good quality condo housing suitable for a 2-child family that isn’t roughly the same as or more than my 7-figure net worth in cost.

I don’t think it’s possible to get more single family homes. So the only option is condos. I agree more spacious one would be awesome as an option.

Unpopular opinion: IMHO single family homes are an idea whose time passed, at least in big urban areas.

While the "American Dream" is to own a home with a backyard, it is logically easier if everyone lived in highrise condos and apartments in urban areas.

Homes would be cheaper, since you could scale up and not just out (e.g. avoid urban sprawl). Not to mention lower gas costs and we don't need to cut down as many trees to build homes.

My mom owns a home (which I rent the downstairs, it's cheaper for me), and it has a big backyard. That in expensive Seattle. Combine that with tens of thousands of homes (if not hundreds) and you have a lot of wasted land.

A lot of the housing problem isn't Amazon or Big Tech, its single-family zoning. Today's cities need high rise buildings to accommodate everyone.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#65

Post by tdeck »

thisrobot wrote: post #51
tdeck wrote: post #24

The housing market also needs more row houses. Those have fewer of the disadvantages of condos but unfortunately they're illegal to build in most (almost all?) parts of the US.

In Seattle there are a ton for town homes being built, split lot and connected, most without any hoa. When they need work I bet you’ll see a lot of neighbors suing neighbors to fix and replace shared elements. I would never move into shared living space that didn’t have some sort of hoa to manage any the shared space.

I'm not sure what you're describing but a traditional row house doesn't share any elements or living space. It's on a small rectangular lot facing the street and has its own walls that directly about the walls of houses on each side with no setback. Shared space like the street and sidewalk are owned by the city.

(Edit: there are also of course row house duplexes that would share a roof, front stairs, etc... But many are single family homes).

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#66

Post by Dracophoenix »

thisrobot wrote: post #53
AcerbicZero wrote: post #36

Eh, maybe I’d do a townhouse, but I’m pretty burned out on condos. They’re just apartments with a bunch of extra liabilities attached.

In Seattle there are a ton for town homes being built, split lot and connected, most without any hoa. When they need work I bet you’ll see a lot of neighbors suing neighbors to fix and replace shared elements. I would never move into shared living space that didn’t have some sort of hoa to manage any the shared space.

As someone with an interest in the Seattle market, I'm wondering if one should consider Mercer Island preferable to Seattle to rent or purchase a residence. Do you have any insight?

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#67

Post by HideousKojima »

thisrobot wrote: post #19
HideousKojima wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I live in a townhome and we hate it. The noise through the walls, especially if you have inconsiderate neighbors, is a huge pain and you have essentially zero control over it.

I think a lot of modern construction sucks. My condo was built in 1980 and I almost never hear my neighbors. It is also a fairly well designed building where both vertical and horizontal neighbors have aligned spaces for sleeping eating and living. Along with side shard walls being used for closets and bathrooms.

My townhome is actually an old WW2 military hospital that got gutted in the 90's and turned into townhomes. I can hardly hear anything from outside since it was apparently built to survive bombing, but the walls between units allow a ton of sound through.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#68

Post by rdtwo »

Condos have wired risks like you can’t rent them out due to hoa so in in down markets you can’t move or are forced to liquidate. You can get assessed large amounts when stuff breaks and you can get hit with huge hoa dues if your neighbors aren’t paying.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#69

Post by dec0dedab0de »

tdeck wrote: post #65
thisrobot wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Seattle there are a ton for town homes being built, split lot and connected, most without any hoa. When they need work I bet you’ll see a lot of neighbors suing neighbors to fix and replace shared elements. I would never move into shared living space that didn’t have some sort of hoa to manage any the shared space.

I'm not sure what you're describing but a traditional row house doesn't share any elements or living space. It's on a small rectangular lot facing the street and has its own walls that directly about the walls of houses on each side with no setback. Shared space like the street and sidewalk are owned by the city. (Edit: there are also of course row house duplexes that would share a roof, front stairs, etc... But many…

The only row house's I know of share side walls. Because they're all built in a row.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#70

Post by toast0 »

matsemann wrote: post #61
toast0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shared living spaces require more coordination with neighbors, either directly or through an HOA. I don't like coordination, so shared spaces are not my preference. Having to run important repairs through a consensus process makes things take longer and become more expensive. If you can't coordinate with your neighbors directly, and resort to the courts, you're likely to end up in the same place when you can't coordi…

> I'm not going to pick a choice I've got enough information to determine I'll dislike. You've been duped by the loud anti-HOA crowd and their scary stories, then. For most people, living in a condo is hassle-free. It's cheaper to be many when doing repairs. And someone else coordinates everything so one doesn't have to think about maintenance.

> And someone else coordinates everything so one doesn't have to think about maintenance.

Is that someone else going to move my stuff out of the way when the repairmen come to fix the ceiling under the leaky roof? Will that someone else actually let me know when they'll be swinging by? Will they use a quality repairperson or their cousin? Will it take them so long to get someone out to fix the roof, that more rooms need ceiling repair? How are we paying for this coordinator's time?

Oops, I wasn't supposed to think about this.

Post reply on HN