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The housing market needs more condos

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Re: The housing market needs more condos

#41

Post by thisrobot »

sidlls wrote: post #18

No, it doesn’t. Or at least it depends on where. What the Bay Area needs is more genuine family housing, not small 2BR condos. If the condos were majority 3+ BR I’d have a different opinion. But they aren’t: it’s very hard to find good quality condo housing suitable for a 2-child family that isn’t roughly the same as or more than my 7-figure net worth in cost.

I don’t think it’s possible to get more single family homes. So the only option is condos. I agree more spacious one would be awesome as an option.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#42

Post by MattGaiser »

thisrobot wrote: post #29
MattGaiser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why I will never buy into shared anything, not why I will warm up to homeowners associations. You are at the mercy of the average members of your group and the average person let’s things decay until it falls down around them.

As someone living in a condo with and hoa I completely disagree. I get yearly budgets, bi-yearly building inspection reports. The hoa has a fiduciary responsibility to the building and is required by law not to let things decay. Without the hoa communal living wouldn’t work, and not everyone can have a single family home, especially in urban centers.

I think this heavily depends on your local regulations.

My grandparents had a condo once and because the people in the association didn't want to pay, they endlessly deferred maintenance until it was 40K a unit. All because they didn't want to fix leaky windows 10 years beforehand.

My home city is filled with examples of this kick it to the next year approach to maintenance.

Most people are that way. They view a bucket as a solution to water dripping in through the roof.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#43

Post by whimsicalism »

sidlls wrote: post #18

No, it doesn’t. Or at least it depends on where. What the Bay Area needs is more genuine family housing, not small 2BR condos. If the condos were majority 3+ BR I’d have a different opinion. But they aren’t: it’s very hard to find good quality condo housing suitable for a 2-child family that isn’t roughly the same as or more than my 7-figure net worth in cost.

More housing of all kinds :)

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#44

Post by jeffbee »

tdeck wrote: post #24

The housing market also needs more row houses. Those have fewer of the disadvantages of condos but unfortunately they're illegal to build in most (almost all?) parts of the US.

Absolutely. It's a great form. Permitted in some places in California, such as these recent neighborhoods.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0148717,-122.2775613,3a,75y,...

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#45

Post by matsemann »

Lots of FUD in this thread, but I guess it depends on where one lives? My experience with things mentioned here:

My condo is noiseless. The codes in my country are strict on this. I got families with children all around me, only hear them when sitting on my balcony during summer. And codes in general makes sure that buying a modern condo is safe. Here it's 5 years where the builder has to fix stuff that's not as it should. (Just avoid buying from small shell companies, but that goes for houses as well)

Not having to care for anything but the inside is nice. Pay a small amount each month that takes care of everything. No crazy HOA stories, actually never heard of things like that here. Being 100 families in this block, actually gives us lots of power when it comes to negotiation, the fixed start-up costs for repairs etc are split over so many. My parents spend at least 10x the amount of money I do caring for their house, while I don't even have to think about it.

Price of condos here has increased much more than houses, as it's central and not possible to build that many more. Can't see why a condo inherently should appreciate less than a house? If there is demand there is demand.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#46

Post by Wonnk13 »

I'm in the process of moving to Boston and it's utter insanity. Housing here is like something out of Kafka novel. Now I empathize with my friends who lived in SF pre-covid. Build, Build, Build!!

I do think it's important now more than ever with remote work to build more duplex / 3 bedroom condos. I'm 33 and I have no desire to move out to the burbs, but marrying and starting a family in a 2 bedroom condo isn't totally appealing to me.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#47

Post by toast0 »

thisrobot wrote: post #4
more_corn wrote: post #3

Because people don’t Like condos?

I think people think they don’t like condos. I currently live in a condo I own and while not without challenges overall I like it. I think people have unrealistic pessimism for hoas. In Seattle there are a ton for town homes being built, split lot and connected, most without any hoa. When they need work I bet you’ll see a lot of neighbors suing neighbors to fix and replace shared elements. I would never move into sha…

Shared living spaces require more coordination with neighbors, either directly or through an HOA. I don't like coordination, so shared spaces are not my preference. Having to run important repairs through a consensus process makes things take longer and become more expensive.

If you can't coordinate with your neighbors directly, and resort to the courts, you're likely to end up in the same place when you can't coordinate with your neighbors as HOA. Although, sometimes, having established procedures can smooth things over.

Single family detached homes without an HOA may not scale (probably doesn't), as you say in another comment, but that doesn't mean we only think we don't like the options that would scale. I haven't lived in a condo, or in an HOA, because I have had choices and I'm not going to pick a choice I've got enough information to determine I'll dislike.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#49

Post by freyr »

massysett wrote: post #25
Victerius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> condos don't see similar appreciation, get hit harder in downturns and are one of the last types of properties to recover in value afterwards. This is fine. I don't buy a condo with the hope of recouping my money. I buy a condo to have a roof over my head. I couldn't care less if my condo loses 80% of its value. It would lower my property tax bill in fact. I don't expect a ROI > 0 for the furniture either. For my r…

If all you want is a roof over your head, why not rent? It's less risky. You may well find yourself caring if your condo loses 80% of its value if you need to sell it and you can't repay the loan.

Is it always less risky? What happens when the price of apartments triples or quadruples over the years but your income stagnates or even goes down? You’d better have rent control, which is generally a bad economic policy overall, and you’d better love your apartment because you will be stuck there. When I lived in SF, many of my older neighbors were in this situation.

If you own and can afford your fixed-rate mortgage, you are much less likely to be in this situation, or worse, homeless.

Re: The housing market needs more condos

#50

Post by MattGaiser »

matsemann wrote: post #45

Lots of FUD in this thread, but I guess it depends on where one lives? My experience with things mentioned here: My condo is noiseless. The codes in my country are strict on this. I got families with children all around me, only hear them when sitting on my balcony during summer. And codes in general makes sure that buying a modern condo is safe. Here it's 5 years where the builder has to fix stuff that's not as it s…

> Can't see why a condo inherently should appreciate less than a house? If there is demand there is demand.

Probably depends on city maturity. In most North American cities, there is plenty of room for more condos. In your case, it is not possible to build more condos either.

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