Live data from Hacker News

Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

blog.hidemyass.com

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#21
It's quite ironic how he says "Our VPN service and VPN services in general are not designed to be used to commit illegal activity", and then "there are many other legitimate uses such as the ability to unblock GEO-restricted websites."

Hello, why do you think most of those sites are geo-restricted? Because of copyright laws. Circumventing those blocks in most cases means you're breaking those laws -- at the very minimum, you're breaking contractual obligations that you and the service are supposed to obey under penalty, and at worst you're committing fraud by claiming you come from a different country. By caving to the court order without a fight, HMA's owner opened the gates to every copyright troll under the sun to come knocking for logs, court order in hand.

I'm the first to admit I've used HMA's webproxy to get around some stupid company firewall; I knew perfectly well I was breaking company policy and could have been sanctioned. I clearly relied on HMA not to spill the beans. It's called HIDE MY ASS, for g*d's sake. Nice to see I was wrong.

A privacy service lives or dies on its reputation, and HMA's reputation is now gone forever.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#22

Throwaway account here. I've actually done work for the owner of this website, on this particular service (front end) and another couple services that he runs (back end). He is a good guy - I believe people are reading into this a bit too much. In the end, he is just like us; trying to build a business/s. He runs a few websites that are fairly successful, and I believe he sold one a year or so ago - good for him. I d…

when something is specifically promoted as protection against oppressive laws/regulations, and then caves at the first opportunity to do so, that's problematic. The service clearly never intended to fight such orders, only to use such claims as marketing tools. I dont care if he is a "guy just like me" thats a scummy, shitty thing to do.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#24

Throwaway account here. I've actually done work for the owner of this website, on this particular service (front end) and another couple services that he runs (back end). He is a good guy - I believe people are reading into this a bit too much. In the end, he is just like us; trying to build a business/s. He runs a few websites that are fairly successful, and I believe he sold one a year or so ago - good for him. I d…

Does that mean US court order got executed in UK, on UK citizen, just like that? Asking because I can't get any company information out of their site, nor from whois data to confirm if that's indeed UK company and/or individual.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#25

Throwaway account here. I've actually done work for the owner of this website, on this particular service (front end) and another couple services that he runs (back end). He is a good guy - I believe people are reading into this a bit too much. In the end, he is just like us; trying to build a business/s. He runs a few websites that are fairly successful, and I believe he sold one a year or so ago - good for him. I d…

No-one serious minds that a business complies with correctly formed legal requests. (And it's tricky for people in the UK facing the might of US law.)

What's annoying is the disconnect between saying "We help you avoid censorship" and "we comply with correctly formed law enforcement documents".

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#26
post #14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you knowingly purchase stolen goods, you are guilty of a crime. If the seller swears the goods aren't stolen and even signs a contract to that effect, you aren't guilty of a crime unless you know that the goods actually are stolen. They key element is the intent to buy goods that have been stolen; merely intending to buy goods is not enough. More appropriate examples would be Napster or Limewire. Their TOS's barre…

>you aren't guilty of a crime unless you know that the goods actually are stolen. Unless you're in a jurisdiction where the knowledge element can be satisfied by whether a reasonable person would suspect that the property was stolen. In that case you could be found guilty.

Which thankfully, does not apply to criminal charges in America. Where an intent element of "knowledgeable" must be proved, it must be proved that the specific individual knew, or should have known X. "Should have known" is a catch-some for people who willfully ignore what's going on right in front of them, but it does not encompass what a reasonable person would have suspected.

You're confusing the standards applicable to tort law (another person sues you for damages) or regulatory infractions (government sues you for money) with criminal law (government tries to send you to jail/prison).

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#27

Anyone who can access the site mind posting the article for those of us stuck behind work proxies? Much obliged.

Lulzsec fiasco Posted on September 23, 2011 We have received concerns by users that our VPN service was utilized by a member or members of the hacktivist group ‘lulzsec’. Lulzsec have been ALLEGEDLY been responsible for a number of high profile cases such as:

The hacking of the Sony Playstation network which compromised the names, passwords, e-mail addresses, home addresses and dates of birth of thousands of people. The DDOS attack which knocked the British governments SOCA (Serious Organised Crime Agency) and other government websites offline. The release of various sensitive and confidential information from companies such as AT&T, Viacom, Disney, EMI, NBC Universal, and AOL. Gaining access to NATO servers and releasing documents regarding the communication and information services (CIS) in Kosovo. The defacement of British newspaper websites The Sun & The Times. The hacking of 77 law enforcement sheriff websites.

It first came to our attention when leaked IRC chat logs were released, in these logs participants discussed about various VPN services they use, and it became apparent that some members were using our service. No action was taken, after all there was no evidence to suggest wrongdoing and nothing to identify which accounts with us they were using. At a later date it came as no surprise to have received a court order asking for information relating to an account associated with some or all of the above cases. As stated in our terms of service and privacy policy our service is not to be used for illegal activity, and as a legitimate company we will cooperate with law enforcement if we receive a court order (equivalent of a subpoena in the US).

Our VPN service and VPN services in general are not designed to be used to commit illegal activity. It is very naive to think that by paying a subscription fee to a VPN service you are free to break the law without any consequences. This includes certain hardcore privacy services which claim you will never be identified, these types of services that do not cooperate are more likely to have their entire VPN network monitored and tapped by law enforcement, thus affecting all legitimate customers.

We would also like to clear up some misconceptions about what we do and what we stand for. In 2005 we setup HMA primarily as a way to bypass censorship of the world-wide-web whether this be on a government or a corporate/localized scale. We truly believe the world-wide-web should be world-wide and not censored in anyway. A prime example of this would be the Egyptian revolution for which our service played a key role for protesters gaining access to websites such as Twitter which were blocked by the government, we experienced record traffic during this time. Although our web proxy accounts to a high percentage of our traffic, our VPN service accounts to nearly all of our revenue. Our main customer base use our VPN service to ensure their sensitive web traffic cannot be intercepted on insecure networks, though there are many other legitimate uses such as the ability to unblock GEO-restricted websites. Rummage through our review database and you’ll be able to gain a decent understanding of who uses our service and why. Edit: We have had a few queries as to our logging policies. We only log the time you connect and disconnect from our service, we do not log in any shape or form your actual internet traffic.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#28

Throwaway account here. I've actually done work for the owner of this website, on this particular service (front end) and another couple services that he runs (back end). He is a good guy - I believe people are reading into this a bit too much. In the end, he is just like us; trying to build a business/s. He runs a few websites that are fairly successful, and I believe he sold one a year or so ago - good for him. I d…

when something is specifically promoted as protection against oppressive laws/regulations, and then caves at the first opportunity to do so, that's problematic. The service clearly never intended to fight such orders, only to use such claims as marketing tools. I dont care if he is a "guy just like me" thats a scummy, shitty thing to do.

I'm not really going to argue, I guess it's a matter of opinion. I don't feel that the service is particularly positioned in the way that it's promoted to fight oppressive law - based on the landing page anyway; I'm unaware of his other marketing initiatives though, afaik, he uses word of mouth. I guess that's really all I can say.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#29

Throwaway account here. I've actually done work for the owner of this website, on this particular service (front end) and another couple services that he runs (back end). He is a good guy - I believe people are reading into this a bit too much. In the end, he is just like us; trying to build a business/s. He runs a few websites that are fairly successful, and I believe he sold one a year or so ago - good for him. I d…

And if the U.S. decides to assist with some other country's pursuit of a political dissident? Do you help then, too?

> You run this website, the US govt. comes knocking at your door looking for records - what do you do?

You truthfully say that you don't have any records to provide, because responsible privacy services don't log their customers' activities. I think that's the one part of this situation that I don't understand: why were there records in the first place?

Regardless, a lot of his customers -- the ones providing half of his revenue for this business -- are now aware that the service monitors their activities.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#30
post #16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you knowingly purchase stolen goods, you are guilty of a crime. If the seller swears the goods aren't stolen and even signs a contract to that effect, you aren't guilty of a crime unless you know that the goods actually are stolen. They key element is the intent to buy goods that have been stolen; merely intending to buy goods is not enough. More appropriate examples would be Napster or Limewire. Their TOS's barre…

On a separate note (by reading your comment), isn't funny how you need to be lawyer in order to find out whether you are breaking the law or no for trivial things as this one. USSR perfected that approach but we are getting there.

You don't need to be a lawyer to know whether you are breaking the law for something like this. It's very simple: Are you trying to buy stuff? --> You're okay, unless... Are you trying to buy stuff that you know is stolen? --> That's a crime.
Post reply on HN