Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#61

Post by Arainach » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 12:16 AM UTC

upsidesinclude wrote: post #57

Arainach wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something is done by a corporation does not in fact make it bad. Diet and exercise can help, but they take time (serious time for some people) and are expensive. As part of dealing with blood pressure, I switched to cooking my own meals (the salt and cholesterol levels in all restaraunt or ready-to-go meals, not just fast food, are horrifying) but that's a significant time investment and generally just a…

You have approached this without any humor and I'm baffled. But I digress. In the article, you will find that Dr. Houston does recommend these lifestyle changes and reduction of medications to the extent possible. That extent is entirely. Not that you will achieve it, but it is something you could do, if you so chose. Diet and excersize are not expensive and largely can reduce expenses. Walking a few miles a day is a…

Time is a finite commodity. In today's world, a rare and precious one indeed. Cooking takes significant time. Doing dishes takes significant time. Constantly going shopping to keep fresh ingredients in stock takes time.

I can go to the store, buy a few dollars of rice, beans, tomatoes, and so on, cook dinner and clean it up, but this is hours of my day every day and the tomatoes and any leafy greens will start going bad rapidly. Alternatively, on my way home from work I can stop by Wendy's, get the four for four combo and get a thousand calories in two minutes for four dollars plus tax. It is more expensive in dollars and dramatically more expensive in time to eat healthy. For people working hourly jobs to survive, people with children who value the ability to spend their few non-working hours a day with them, and so many other cases, there is a very real cost.

There is a very vocal segment on the internet, traditionally of upper middle class (or upper class) folks born into wealth that say "why can't everyone just restrain themselves and be healthy" in the same tone of voice as one might say "why wouldn't they just ask their personal trainer for tips" or "what can a banana cost, ten dollars?". They're out of touch with the reality of a huge chunk of society.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#62

Post by fuzzfactor » Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 9:37 AM UTC

yupper32 wrote: post #9

This shoots up so many red flags. "Dr. Houston also cautioned that the role of supplements in hypertension has not yet been tested in clinical outcomes trials in the manner that conventional drugs have been assessed . So while there is an apparent role for supplements in treating hypertension, their ability to improve cardiovascular outcomes remains to be proven." "Many natural compounds in food, as well as certain n…

>There's no inherent reason to prefer more "natural" solutions to medical issues.

Especially not the natural approaches which are merely anecdotally "proven" for thousands of years.

Certainly all modern drug companies have come so much further in only the last few decades when they have never been so modern. And benevolent too, in a way only they can do. The human brain is so much different now. I love it every time they come up with a miracle pill where you take one and you are cured for life. My first job out of university was at a pharmaceutical manufacturer. It couldn't have been more eye-opening after you see the amazing things going on back there!

Instead of natural approaches, sometimes all you really need are the much more potent and rapidly effective pharmaceuticals which are completely non-toxic and have no possible side effects whatsoever.

Oh wait . . .

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#63

Post by Sami_Inkinen » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 12:52 AM UTC

philip1209 wrote: post #4

Seems like there's an opportunity for a "Virta Health for hypertension". But, a reason Virta works so well is that you can measure blood ketones really easily, which gives a fairly binary signal of compliance. So - what's a signal for compliance with a hypertension-friendly diet that a clinician could measure remotely?

[for full disclosure, I'm founder of Virta]

Metabolically (or biologically) it turns out what we do at Virta already lowers blood pressure (i.e. hypertension) substantially. Reversing insulin resistance (i.e. T2 diabetes) reverses number of other metabolic irregularities. Evidence well published: https://www.virtahealth.com/research

[that said, there are some other niche reasons for high blood pressure too, which we don't address today, but most "hypertension" is driven by the same drivers as insulin resistance]

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#64

Post by upsidesinclude » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 8:05 AM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #61

upsidesinclude wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have approached this without any humor and I'm baffled. But I digress. In the article, you will find that Dr. Houston does recommend these lifestyle changes and reduction of medications to the extent possible. That extent is entirely. Not that you will achieve it, but it is something you could do, if you so chose. Diet and excersize are not expensive and largely can reduce expenses. Walking a few miles a day is a…

Time is a finite commodity. In today's world, a rare and precious one indeed. Cooking takes significant time. Doing dishes takes significant time. Constantly going shopping to keep fresh ingredients in stock takes time. I can go to the store, buy a few dollars of rice, beans, tomatoes, and so on, cook dinner and clean it up, but this is hours of my day every day and the tomatoes and any leafy greens will start going…

I would offer for you to read my comment again. You have reaffirmed your points, without evidence, but not addressed my points to the contrary.

Further you have framed my position as one of luxury, but this is just a stereotypical additude of people that aren't willing to do the necessary things.

Are you arguing for your family or just some theoretical family? I suggested "5 minute meals", which are really meals you can make in five minutes or thereabouts. Search for one. There are few apartments I've seen in years that don't have dishwashers and I would know, I grew up without. Dishes don't take hours unless you never do them and have a massive pile to wash. Washing a plate and fork takes minutes. Do that when you finish eating instead if placing them aside in a pile.

  Spending time with family or kids is what you make it. Teach your kids to cook and they will have that skill for life. It's called active engagement. Cooking is not a chore, it's a fulfilling activity where you can become an expert and make things others enjoy.

You can argue calories are calories, but no healthy athlete dismisses nutrition. Fast-food is not nutritious. Eating healthier has benefits that normalize the cost relative to Wendy's or any processed foods. The same calories with more nutrients are supplying you with more benefit. You can dredge up some garbage studies that claim otherwise, but you won't read into the data and methods to understand why these are falsehoods and generally poorly designed investigations.

Walking is free. You just have to get up and walk. The healthiest and longest lived people on earth eat simple diets and walk 2-3 miles per day. Often to the store. Read about the Japanese or Sicilians.

I just saw bananas on the shelf for 19 cents a piece. I bought one.