Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you elaborate on this rule?
My guess is, it has to do with how you handle 1, 2, N. The first time we write something, we write it just for that specific case --- no point overengineering if you don't know you'll need it. (Hence the "YAGNI" advice that is common.) Now, there are two things that code has to handle. You could put in a simple bit of special-case logic, or a case statement, and move on, OR you could instead spend time, codes, and te…
The Factorio Mindset
181–190 of 358 posts
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dyson Sphere Program is a great Factorio-like that feels more optimistic and less dark. It’s still about harvesting every last resource though. On the other hand there’s Terra Nil, where the goal is to clean up a destroyed landscape and then leave it without a trace. It’s more of a puzzle game than a factory game, but still worth playing: https://vfqd.itch.io/terra-nil
On the multiplayer side - Eco. An incredibly underrated game. You have a month of playtime to extract resources, develop your society, and be advanced enough to stop an asteroid. Leaving minimum impact is heavily encouraged, and it has the most sophisticated economic system I've seen in any computer game.
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#183Hell of an opener that just makes me immediately dislike this guys entire worldview.
Kinda also backed up by the fact that he doesn't mention the very unsubtle commentary of you basically strip mining an alien planet clean mutating the wild life into a homicidal frenzy in desperate attempt to stop you from killing their home with pollution.
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would love to see ~ "Factorio - 524 RPM base, trains only no drones" on a resume Or heck, even completing either Angels or SpaceEx mods show a serious amount of dedication, "self-starter-ness" and competence in reading documentation. I've put 5000+ hours in and fell off spaceex in the green space science - so much depth.
Honestly yeah, I'm gonna add a link to my 1k SPM walkthrough to my resume. Down downside seems very low and the upside very high.
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dyson Sphere Program is a great Factorio-like that feels more optimistic and less dark. It’s still about harvesting every last resource though. On the other hand there’s Terra Nil, where the goal is to clean up a destroyed landscape and then leave it without a trace. It’s more of a puzzle game than a factory game, but still worth playing: https://vfqd.itch.io/terra-nil
Yep, currently playing through DSP myself, as a factorio veteran. DSP is a great successor, even more than Satisfactory . It's amazing how well the DSP devs have figured out how to scale from small factory plots to inter-planetary supply chains to galaxy-wide economies, all to build a mega project. The only thing that's really missing (and same with Satisfactory , IMO) is the punishment for expanding too far too fast…
Oxygen Not Included does that really well IMO. Almost every production process has inputs and outputs, and a lot of the outputs are waste that you need to figure out either how to utilize as input in another process, or to dispose of safely and in a scalable way so as to avoid negative repercussions. Waste isn't just in the form of products either. For example, one of the challenges that sneaks up on new players is that heat is also a type of waste, and if you don't take steps to manage it (for example, by insulating your power generators), it can wreck your colony.
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#186I'm literally playing Factorio right now, with my kid. Got into it over Christmas based on HN talking about it all the time. Good game to multi because I don't have to pay attention all the time. It really reminds me of software in many ways. You fiddle with tiny little things like balancing a belt, and then move on to building belt balancers. You then move up the abstractions to where you're not really placing inser…
I guess it's because he knows that it's just a game. And there's nothing in the game's rules that allows you to befriend the natives. There's simply no other choice that is rewarded other than expansion and domination, because the natives will always be hostile when you get close to them. Plus: The natives expand too. From time to time new biter bases spawn.
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you want to be able to double production of high volume products with a couple copy-pastes. In my experience, no. Any high-volume production needs to be built from the ground up from smelters (or even miners) on downwards. If you have 1-belts of iron feeding your factory and then want to expand, the easiest way to do so is to build a parallel +1 belt of iron (including the 70+ smelters and 50+ miners somewhere else…
before I have bots, I usually put down a minimal production line that doesn't saturation a belt. I place them perpendicular to the main bus, so they can be 2x'd or 4x'd before saturating an output belt or fully consuming an input. in the early stages of having bots, I scale them a couple times as needed. but once I have a good number of bots and a couple speed upgrades for them, I try to switch to remote train-served…
A yellow iron-belt can send at most, 15-iron per second, towards the factory. The player can spend this on 3-steel per second, 15-green circuits per second, 7.5 gears per second, or any such combination of intermediate materials.
However, "steel" has an interesting property, every "1 steel" you send down the factory is equivalent to sending 5-iron down to the factory.
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This means that your singular steel belt sending only a partial belt (maybe 6-steel/second, which is only 40% capacity) is "equivalent" to sending 2-iron belts (30-iron per second).
"Compression" means that you only have to think about running 40% belt of steel, rather than 2x 100% belts of iron. This takes up 1/2 the space and is far simpler in the overall picture, and even leaves room on the belt for up to 2.5x expansion later. (Your 40% yellow belt can "expand" to 100% capacity in the long-game, ultimately reaching the same throughput as 5x yellow belts of iron at 100% capacity).
Playing with "compression" can lead to simplified designs. Similarly, green-circuits are great at compression (1-iron + 1.5 copper per circuit), as are gears (1-gear == 2-iron). But steel is among the best (5-iron per steel).
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If you work at the "steel" level and plan around a "future steel belt", you end up benefiting from compression and leading yourself towards simpler designs.
But that's an advanced concept. This isn't something I'd expect a beginner or intermediate Factorio player to get. The beginner/intermediate player would try to brute force the additional iron-lines using iron plates directly, and have a difficult job of doing so. It takes multiple playthroughs before you realize that belting-steel has benefits over belting-iron from a factory throughput perspective.
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The recommendation I put above, to belt your science to new locations, is the ultimate answer to this compression. A blue-science pack consists of 1.5x adv. circuit + 1x engine + .5x sulfur
That is to say: one blue-science pack is 7.5 copper + 12 iron + 3 plastic + 1/2 sulfur, or roughly 23-resources per blue-science pack. That's a compression ratio of 23-to-1, superior to steel.
This makes "belting" blue science around a relatively efficient endeavor from a human-labor perspective. (True: the factory has to work 23x harder to "fill the belt", but if we're talking about "eventual consistency" measured in the scope of hours, its not really that big of a deal to wait for the belt of science-packs to fill up to its steady state level.
And by "wait", I mean, "play the other elements of factorio while waiting". I know its going to take 3 or 4 hours to happen, but I know it will happen with 100% certainty because I have confidence in the design. So I do it, and move on to base expansion / building more train outposts or other manually-intensive jobs.
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In any case, "just expand steel" turns out to be one of the easier tasks. I don't know if you knew steel was specifically a high-compression item worthy of attention like this, but... that's an explicit strategy. One that took me many, many playthroughs to understand and take advantage of.
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#188I'm literally playing Factorio right now, with my kid. Got into it over Christmas based on HN talking about it all the time. Good game to multi because I don't have to pay attention all the time. It really reminds me of software in many ways. You fiddle with tiny little things like balancing a belt, and then move on to building belt balancers. You then move up the abstractions to where you're not really placing inser…
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#189I have over 5000 hours in Factorio. I am part of a group where several of us are over 5000 hours. Some of us have Autism. Some of us have ADHD. Some of us have both. The majority of us are in the tech industry. The companies we work at have been made to understand that the factory must grow.
honest question, but is factorio not a similar itch to programming? I always feel with these type of games, that my time would be better spent working on a personal software project, where i get reasonably similar enjoyment, more satisfaction, and presumably more transferable skills.
Re: The Factorio Mindset
#190Rip up large fractions of the setup and lay them out again with more straight lines and sensibility"
Newb.
You don't rip the first spaghetti base up and rebuild, that's a waste of time.
The first base only exists to get you to the point where you can build a main belt line and then make everything nice and straight and coherent.
The old base just sits abandoned, until the new belt line eventually encroachs, and then you just unceremoniously raze it.