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I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

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Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#171
post #148

Hey! As the author of the gist, just wanted to clear up what seem to be a few misconceptions: - This isn't GPT-3, it's the recently-released open-source and open-weights model from EleutherAI, GPT-NeoX-20B. GPT-3 is much larger (175 billion parameters vs NeoX's 20 billion). - It's well-known that language models don't tend to be good at math by default (Gwern, among others, pointed this out back in June 2020). It see…

The "algorithm" isn't too mysterious, especially in light of your observation that it does better at the beginning and end digits. It's just doing what transformers do: predicting the probability of a token given the tokens it can attend to. Assume 20B parameters is enough to memorize an addition table. Then the first digit or two is relatively predictable, as are the last, and as is the length, aka the probability of a space token. The middle tokens are less predictable. This is consistent with the result.

Furthermore, it doesn't even really need to memorize the addition table in the explicit way this suggests. Think about the probability of certain digit tokens appearing given the presence of numbers and plus signs in its data. Thus a behavior consistent with having memorized an addition table emerges from mimicking its training data.

Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#172

I fear the day AI will give superhuman consistent correct answers and nobody will be able to determine why it is right or how the correct answer was found. Maybe someday we'll get an answer from a machine which superhumanly mostly correct and we'll be unable to tell if it is right or wrong. If it is a question whose answer will influence important decisions, considering the machine answer will be close to a form of r…

[deleted]

Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#173
post #169
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the tokenization argument and it may influence it a bit, but I suspect the n-digit math issue has to do more with search the way it samples (in the bpe link gwern references some experiements I'd done with improving n-digit math by chunking using commas, http://gptprompts.wikidot.com/logic:math ). I think since it samples left to right on the first pass, it's not able to predict well if things carry from right…

Yup, quite possible that this has something to do with it. There is other work showing that giving LMs a "scratchpad" for intermediate computations allows them to do much better not just at arithmetic but also things like predicting the output of some code: https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.00114

definitely. also works on text translation/comprehension like emojis! https://aidungeon.medium.com/introducing-ai-dungeon-translat.... For actual benchmarks, scratchpad improves GPT-Davinci WIC from 50% accuracy (chance) to nearly 70%.

I think the check and validate is a different sort of scratchpad but maybe not. Seems like at least 3 types - soe for pulling implicit info out of the network viz wic, sometimes for intermediary steps viz coding, sometimes for verification like here.

Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Deep Symbolic Regression" paper reports very poor generalisation results that break off after a small n (where n is the number of tokens in the predicted sequence). It works some of the time for n = 1 (predicts the next token) but accuracy drops off for n = 10. No results are reported for N > 10 as far as I can tell in the "Out of Domain Generalization" section (which is the meat and potatoes of the "generalizat…

I don't think you will find any human that will extrapolate sequence generated with more than 10 operators. And longer input sequences are actually easier to handle - fig 1. the right most graph. If you think you can do better than their program then: Seq1: [0, 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 13, 26, 32, 58, 116, 142, 258, 516] Seq2: [2, 2, 3, 5, 10, 12, 22, 44, 54, 98, 196, 240, 436, 872] Seq3: [3, 1, 8, 9, 18, 19, 37, 74, 92, 166,…

I don't think I understand what you mean. Aren't all the sequences on the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences created by humans? We clearly have the tools to extrapolate sequences from examples, rather than just eyballing them and trying to guess them. For instance: we have maths. So I must have misunderstood your meaning?

Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#175
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho, not a matter of "if" but "when". I'm convinced that it will be a future civil rights battle, with young people largely on the "AI has rights" side and old people largely on the "AI has no rights" side.

Then you grossly misunderstand how far along AI is. AGI is not even a remote possibility with current techniques and implementations (and I would contest, entirely impossible with digital logic). It's just massive amount of statistics that were computationally impossible given available hardware until recently. We don't have a baseline understanding of consciousness or intuition to a degree that we could even begin t…

by AGI do you just mean artificial general intelligence, as in, capable of composing plans and deriving conclusions and such about the world in general, doing all the same types of reasoning tasks that humans are capable of and which are also used to achieve outcomes,

Or do you mean, being conscious?

Whether the latter is impossible with only "digital logic", is somewhat plausible (though I would still guess that it is possible, though far beyond our understanding.)

But the former being impossible with only "digital logic", seems rather implausible to me!

Like, I endorse the claim that souls exist, but, I see no reason that a soul would be required for an agent to have a model of the world we live in (not just a toy environment), and to act in the world in ways which both improve its model of the world and to achieve "goals" within it (and when there is a trade-off between these, which balances these in some way).

Nor do I see a reason that any such agent would need to have any internal experience.

(I still think it is probably possible to make an artificial agent which does have an internal experience, but, I doubt this will ever actually happen.)

Ok, you might ask, "Why do you think those things?", which, first, I should ask you the same, but, I will answer:

I see no fundamental obstacle to it.

The world behaves in ways which can be modeled well. These models which we use, they are not some ineffable knowledge that can only ever be represented within a person's mind, and cannot be concretely expressed in artifacts like books and pdf files such that it could be recovered from said artifacts.

If navigating the world required such a kind of secret knowledge, that either couldn't be communicated, or which could only be communicated through some kind of special person-to-person medium which is never merely expressed in an object in the world, and such that without this secret knowledge, effective planning in the world was impossible, with the world being too wild without it, then it would make sense that, unless we could make machines that could have this kind of secret knowledge, then it would be impossible to make machines that could plan in the world and such.

But, no such secret knowledge appears to be needed when acting in the world. When one constructs a shed according to some plans, there is no ineffable secret knowledge needed for this. When one, given some desiderata, designs a plan for a shed, there is no secret knowledge needed for this either. Nor when designing a computer chip.

(by "secret knowledge" I don't mean that it would be a secret that a few people know and other people don't. I mean secret as in, cannot be shared with or expressed via anything we know of that isn't a person.)

It very much seems that the world works according to expressible rules, or at least, can be very well approximated as working according to such rules.

Expressible rules can be enumerated. They can also be interpreted mechanically, and therefore evaluated mechanically. Of course, a naive enumeration and testing would be completely impractical, but if we are talking about what is possible in principle, with no requirement that the computations be doable in practice, just that they be finite, then it seems clear that rules which describe the world well can, in principle, be discovered mechanically.

There is no fundamental barrier.

Obviously I can't rule out that there is an undiscovered law-of-physics, that if ever an AGI would be created, lighting strikes the area and destroys it before it is completed, and that therefore AGI is impossible, because if it ever would be created, this would be prevented by the lightning.

But, within our current understanding of the world, there is nothing that can be a reason it is impossible.

Any such reason would have to apply to machines but not to us.

Now, maybe if our brains work quantum mechanically in an important large-scale way, or, if our brains receive signals from beyond the physical universe (which I'm not ruling out; see: souls), these could be reasons it could be impossible to emulate a human mind using a binary classical computer, even allowing lots of slowdown. (Err, quantum mechanics can be simulated with costs exponential in the size of the system, but, if the human brain were entangled with other things in an important way, you couldn't really emulate the brain with just a classical computer, because it couldn't be entangled with the other thing.)

But, this still wouldn't be a barrier to something using just classical computation with binary, having models of the world and acting within it, unless these things were needed for modeling the world, which, seeing as we can communicate our models and such with words, they aren't.

(... uh... ok so, quantum teleportation does allow using entanglement along with sending classical information, to communicate quantum information, so you might say "well, if two people's brains are entangled, then what if the measurements and such done in quantum teleportation are somehow encoded in a way we don't notice in the word choice and such that people use, and then this is subconsciously used in the other person's brain for the other half of the quantum teleportation protocol, and so quantum bits are communicated that way, but, I don't think this is plausible. There would have to be some way that the brains renew the entanglement, which doesn't seem plausible even if brains do store quantum information, and I really don't think brains store quantum information. I only mention this to cover bases.)

And, our reasoning about the models, which we use to make models and such, are also things we can explain.

There is no fundamental barrier. The only barriers are practical ones, things being hard, algorithms being too inefficient, not having worked out all the details of things, etc.

(That's not to say that I think AGI will ever be produced. I'm kind of trusting that God won't allow that to happen, because I think it would be likely to go very badly if it did happen. (But, I still think research into trying to figure out how to make sure that it goes well if it does happen, is good and important. "Do not rely on miracles" and all that. Perhaps His actual plan is that people solve AI safety, rather than AGI being prevented. Idk.))

Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you will find any human that will extrapolate sequence generated with more than 10 operators. And longer input sequences are actually easier to handle - fig 1. the right most graph. If you think you can do better than their program then: Seq1: [0, 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 13, 26, 32, 58, 116, 142, 258, 516] Seq2: [2, 2, 3, 5, 10, 12, 22, 44, 54, 98, 196, 240, 436, 872] Seq3: [3, 1, 8, 9, 18, 19, 37, 74, 92, 166,…

I don't think I understand what you mean. Aren't all the sequences on the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences created by humans? We clearly have the tools to extrapolate sequences from examples, rather than just eyballing them and trying to guess them. For instance: we have maths. So I must have misunderstood your meaning?

If you look at the 3 sequences I gave you, can you guess following elements of the sequence?

We can create sequences, but guessing underlying patterns is a lot more difficult.

Humans will have very hard time if you go beyond around 10 operators in a pattern used to generate a sequence.

My guess is that their model will be better at it than me or you.

Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#178
post #148

Hey! As the author of the gist, just wanted to clear up what seem to be a few misconceptions: - This isn't GPT-3, it's the recently-released open-source and open-weights model from EleutherAI, GPT-NeoX-20B. GPT-3 is much larger (175 billion parameters vs NeoX's 20 billion). - It's well-known that language models don't tend to be good at math by default (Gwern, among others, pointed this out back in June 2020). It see…

The "algorithm" isn't too mysterious, especially in light of your observation that it does better at the beginning and end digits. It's just doing what transformers do: predicting the probability of a token given the tokens it can attend to. Assume 20B parameters is enough to memorize an addition table. Then the first digit or two is relatively predictable, as are the last, and as is the length, aka the probability o…

It's a little bit more complex here because tokens are variable-length. So getting the order of magnitude (i.e. number of digits) correct requires that it be able to pick tokens for the beginning and end that have the right start/end digit, and then figure out how to make the middle the right length.

And sure, of course it emerged from mimicking (or more precisely, learning to predict the most likely next token in) its training data – that's how it was trained, it can't have emerged from anything else :) But that doesn't tell us what the higher-level algorithm represented by the weights of the network is. I'm talking about things like this for understanding an algorithm for curve detection learned by a convolutional neural network: https://distill.pub/2020/circuits/curve-circuits/

Re: I asked GPT-NeoX-20B a hundred arithmetic questions

#179
post #48

This just shows that this model did not learn anything. Humans do not see billions of examples to add numbers. We see just few and can apply learned notation and procedures to infinity with 100% precision. GPT-3 learned mathematical intuition. Humans can hardly learn multiplication table over months and repetitions of same examples, and that table hardly matters at all. GPT-3 is just plainly wrong objective they tryi…

I think you're completely wrong. This shows that the model learned a lot about at-a-glance math. Sure if you sit down with pen and paper you can get the answer, but few people could do these reliably in their head. But what you can do is figure the order of magnitude, and get a rough answer for the first few digits and last digits, each with their chance of being wrong. If anything, this shows that it learned math de…

No. A million times no. It’s a language model. It doesn’t understand math at all. It doesn’t even understand language. All it did was spit out something that looks like math. It’s fancy automatic writing.

I’ll concede that if you tokenized the equations correctly, you might be able to get a language model to learn arithmetic, since it’s just symbol manipulation; but to make the leap that a general text model has learned anything like arithmetic is more than two bridges too far.

While deep learning language models are useful for certain cases (eg translation, and autocomplete), and are better at making superficially grammatical text than previous models; they are most emphatic my not learning anything about general concepts. They can’t even create coherent text for more than a paragraph, and even then it’s obvious they have no idea what any of the words actually mean.

These large language models are the MOST overhyped piece of AI I’ve seen in my professional career. The fact that they’re neural nets redux is just the chef’s kiss.

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