Grad schemes are generally the way any graduates get introduced to a company in any career.
How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
121–130 of 332 posts
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#122Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#123> While I certainly don't approve of these practices, I'm also not saying that these companies are only evil. I view that they serve a very strong need in some corners of the system, like a coding bootcamp for the less fortunate. Absolutely not. I was in college for CS/CE, dropped out during an economic crisis, joined the military, and had to work my way through technician, network engineer, systems engineer, DevOps,…
Thank you for sharing and I think your opinion is certainly valid and it would create more trust if everyone shares your principles. I was just trying to convey this idea that they are there because they serve a need. If we want to imagine a world without these practices, we should probably start by tackling the system itself, not by attacking the surface level actors only.
I wish the world would've been that charitable to me. Instead, had I failed I'd be a +1 on another DOD statistic. I wouldn't have even registered in turnover for most software companies. Nobody would've missed the SWE without a degree beyond my friends. There are few, if any, DEI dashboards that would've tracked a SWE without a degree or an enlisted veteran.
On one hand, I hate that people seek accountability so much from individuals. I think individual decisions are so low level most of the time that it makes seeing the bigger picture very difficult, if not impossible. On the other hand, this story is the antithesis of my professional life, and the very principles that may have projected my career also did damage to my personal life because of the focus they demanded. I know what's lost and that makes reading about someone who just wanted more than what they were already given so hard to read.
Edit: I do feel for people who have a lack of opportunity. I was there, I lived it, I felt it. That said, it's certainly not the only emotion I connect with when reading this story.
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
My standard advice is to use a job title that fits your ability. If you don't, it's going to be a bad fit. That said, if you're looking for a new job and are still a junior, you're probably switching far too quickly. My plan was to switch at 3 years experience, at which point I'd drop the junior title for sure. I ended up staying longer (because they increased my pay very well the first 3 years, and then started scre…
> That said, if you're looking for a new job and are still a junior, you're probably switching far too quickly. couldn't disagree more. people should change jobs every week if they're able to. why stay at company A making X, if company B is willing to hire you now, for 1.5-3x? if you stay at a company for an arbitrarily long period of time, you're just throwing away tons of money
From a pure immediate money perspective, sure changing immediately to a higher paying job makes sense.
However, generally each new job comes with a ramp up time before you become useful and then a further ramp up before you can develop new skills (in my limited experience).
I don’t think I could properly progress in my career by building higher level skills if I had to learn new organisational practices and technical skills every few months. And arguably, IMO proper progress is essential to securing significantly higher salaries in the future (but I’m not sure how the total money aspect works out though).
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
> is literally part of the game unfortunately I strongly disagree with this framing. There is no "game". There are just the actions of the individual players. Yes, in some sense, lying is part of the "game" in that some players will do it. But extending that to saying "it's part of the game" implies that all players must use those moves, which is absolutely false. It also implies that you are morally excused from doi…
> A core concept behind something being a "game" is that it exists in a morally isolated sandbox This is interesting; if true, what of game theory's seat at the core of many notions of strategy as deployed for explicitly moral purposes? Also, anecdotally, I've seen pretty good results putting some campy, tongue in cheek acknowledgement that I'm not playing games in the resume/cover letter space where these alleged "r…
GP is making up definitions for concepts in ways that make no sense. denying the existence of games because you find them morally reprehensible doesn't change the fact of their existence.
of course games are executed with moral repercussions. if anything, that's really the point of games. they are simplified, yes, but not amoral.
if anything, most "amoral" or "apolitical" games are widely implemented hegemonic tools.
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah but this is less than 1/10 of 1% of the number of people that graduate every year. By the same logic you could say that everyone has trust funds, because most of the people in this small slice have them. Just because something applies to the top 0.1% of the US doesn't mean it applies to the rest of the 99.9%. This is the problem with wealth and opportunity disparity in this country. The haves think that the have…
It’s not a choice to apply yourself and get into a good school? I mean seriously, given how hot the US software market is, there’s no excuse. And FWIW, I come from a poor immigrant background. My family was on welfare. I got free lunch at school. The American dream come true. Sorry that not everyone can hack it in life.
Exactly my point, folks with privilege like yourself don't even understand what privilege they have and have taken advantage of their whole life.
I did (apply myself). I did work my ass off to get into, and out of, (good) engineering school and pay for it also.
It simply wasn't an option for me to go to an expensive private or out of state school with a price tag of a couple hundred thousand dollars. So I went to the best school I could afford. Many folks are in this boat. It's not for a lack of trying or intelligence - it's for a lack of privilege.
Edit - I also want to acknowledge that compared to many folks in the world I am very privileged. It only serves to highlight my point even further. These statements are less about me personally and more about me recognizing that I, and many others in our HN world are very privileged in one way or another as compared to he average American, or Human.
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah yes, after all a lottery winner will advise everyone around them to play lottery - clearly it works, they are the best example. Once again, you are refusing to acknowledge that the word "typical" is not appropriate here. Even in your example it's not typical for American people to achieve that American dream, as America is absolutely awful on the social mobility scale. Edit: also it's really classy you are just de…
Quoted post unavailable.
Hahahah, ok dude, if that lets you sleep well at night then sure. One thing is for sure - that your belief is unfortunately pretty typical.
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#128> While I certainly don't approve of these practices, I'm also not saying that these companies are only evil. I view that they serve a very strong need in some corners of the system, like a coding bootcamp for the less fortunate. Absolutely not. I was in college for CS/CE, dropped out during an economic crisis, joined the military, and had to work my way through technician, network engineer, systems engineer, DevOps,…
My reaction was feeling really bad for the students/apprentices/whatever they are, who seem to me clearly in a terrible situation with few options and being exploited.
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#129I feel like these titles are a big reason we don't disclose our salaries in the US (beyond other cultural issues) - the title is our flex.
It's always seemed to me that they are a bit meaningless though. I'm a super senior engineer at my current company because I've been here for a lifetime. I have a lot of skills that port from company to company, but to my current company, I'm even more valuable because I know how to keep this train moving and how to get the tracks switched if need be. I have no doubt I'd need time to become that useful as an engineer at another company. My point is, titles are to some extent, onjly pertinent to your current setting.
Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sometimes grandiose titles can work against you. Early stage startups can be especially hilarious that way, especially when young founders/early stage employees mistakenly feel they need a "big" title to be taken seriously...
Sometimes they do! My last company worked with title companies and it’s a little “insulting” to send less than a director to meet with them.
oh yeah, this is super true of sales. everyone in your sales org needs absurd titles or nobody will ever speak to them. Just one of those things apparently.