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How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

blog.kuperate.com

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Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#71

Post by pjc50 »

alex_anglin wrote: post #18
a4isms wrote: post #7

There is no standard whatsoever for the adjective "Senior" when applied to engineers: Sometimes it means, "Able to work without someone looking over their shoulder at all times." Sometimes it means, "Able to lead and mentor others." And sometimes it means, "Has organizational skills above and beyond engineering skills, able to lead cross-team initiatives and deal with all the human/organization issues around the engi…

In the context of 'IT Consulting Companies,' which the blog post is about, it means that clients are paying a higher billable rate than for more 'junior' staff.

I was made "senior developer" three months out of university for exactly this reason. It helped that I also knew what I was doing, but the whole 1st dotcom bubble was a crazy time.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#72

Post by corpdronejuly »

nicholasjarnold wrote: post #2

I've been involved in hiring decisions on teams I've been part of for a long time now. Blatant plagiarism, obvious embellishments and more subtle BS is literally part of the game unfortunately. This is particularly prevalent when dealing with (almost) any consultancy, large and small. I will not specifically call out names, but the some of the largest and most well known consultancies do this as a matter of practice…

It amazes me that simple honesty and integrity wind up being such a huge value add.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#73

Post by digisign »

yunyu wrote: post #43
robbyking wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a related note, I dated a woman who was promoted to vice president of a small start up when she was in her 20's. She had to hide her title on her resume when she left because no established firm wanted to hire someone whom they assumed they'd need to pay a quarter million dollars to be competitive. Sometimes grandiose titles can work against you.

A quarter million dollars is what a typical new grad offer looks like nowadays

Inflation and housing scarcity are real. This story is probably 3-10 years old.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#74

Post by lnenad »

uncomputation wrote: post #42

This is another reason that, while I understand people’s complaints, I still believe CS interviews should include algorithmic and whiteboard tests. I know they may seem “outdated” or “irrelevant” to some, and yes, it is very unlikely that you will need to implement Dijkstra’s algorithm by hand without any reference, but it is more that it shows a general competence in computing which will transfer to other, more rele…

I'm a firm believer that you should include them, if they are part of the job. If not, especially if they're completely unrelated, then they're just a reason somebody is going to have a harder time passing your interview. If you want that, that's your prerogative, but generally IMHO you should focus on finding owners, people who are going to give it their best to provide quality and love their code/contribution. Whether they know how to rock from day one, or they're going to learn it on the job.

It's not an easy thing to look for, I know, but it's what we should be striving towards IMHO and what I'm focusing on. So far it has had great results, with a few misses, but a better success rate than just handing out technical stuff.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#75

Post by nicholasjarnold »

munificent wrote: post #55
nicholasjarnold wrote: post #2

I've been involved in hiring decisions on teams I've been part of for a long time now. Blatant plagiarism, obvious embellishments and more subtle BS is literally part of the game unfortunately. This is particularly prevalent when dealing with (almost) any consultancy, large and small. I will not specifically call out names, but the some of the largest and most well known consultancies do this as a matter of practice…

> is literally part of the game unfortunately I strongly disagree with this framing. There is no "game". There are just the actions of the individual players. Yes, in some sense, lying is part of the "game" in that some players will do it. But extending that to saying "it's part of the game" implies that all players must use those moves, which is absolutely false. It also implies that you are morally excused from doi…

How about this framing: It's part of a game that I've seen being played throughout my career in tech (software development).

I am in no way advocating for that type of behavior. I'm merely pointing out that it exists, it seems to be a game to some and that those who choose a more genuine path can benefit from the follies of those others, however unfortunate that might be.

It seems we are in agreement, though perhaps you interpreted my words differently than I had hoped people would.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#76

Post by LesZedCB »

munificent wrote: post #55
nicholasjarnold wrote: post #2

I've been involved in hiring decisions on teams I've been part of for a long time now. Blatant plagiarism, obvious embellishments and more subtle BS is literally part of the game unfortunately. This is particularly prevalent when dealing with (almost) any consultancy, large and small. I will not specifically call out names, but the some of the largest and most well known consultancies do this as a matter of practice…

> is literally part of the game unfortunately I strongly disagree with this framing. There is no "game". There are just the actions of the individual players. Yes, in some sense, lying is part of the "game" in that some players will do it. But extending that to saying "it's part of the game" implies that all players must use those moves, which is absolutely false. It also implies that you are morally excused from doi…

it is a game in a game-theoretical sense.

if those other individual actors lie and massage their resume, does it increase my chance of success by being honest, or by lying a little better?

all players do use that move. whether you realize it or not.

your moral framework (one i completely agree with, fwiw) is only informing your own decisions, not other adversaries.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#78

Post by tragictrash »

selestify wrote: post #64
gambiting wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how HN sometimes behaves as if the entire world is one or two small corners of the US.

If you graduate from any top 10 school in the US — which plenty of people do — it is indeed a pretty typical offer Love how I’m downvoted for pointing out a fact. I mean, for fuck’s sake, look at levels.fyi. And look at how many people FAANG and FAANG-adjacent startups hire every year. It’s really not that rare. But hey, stay in denial.

It might not be rare to you but you have to realize that there are 6+ billion people on this planet. It's fucking rare.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#79

Post by selestify »

alan-hn wrote: post #68
selestify wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you graduate from any top 10 school in the US — which plenty of people do — it is indeed a pretty typical offer Love how I’m downvoted for pointing out a fact. I mean, for fuck’s sake, look at levels.fyi. And look at how many people FAANG and FAANG-adjacent startups hire every year. It’s really not that rare. But hey, stay in denial.

In what fields?

Computer science, obviously.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#80

Post by [deleted] »

gmadsen wrote: post #56
a4isms wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon me while I blow the dust off the standard quip about "years of experience:" "Is that one year of experience, repeated five times?"

id rather have someone with one year repeated 5 times than someone with just one year. Those aren't equivalent

[deleted]
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