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How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

blog.kuperate.com

41–50 of 332 posts

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#41
Not senior, but junior...

I recently started Web Development (well, it's been almost a year now). I am technically in a 'Junior' position, but I've read articles stating that it's only detrimental to list yourself as a Junior.

What are your thoughts? Am I still a Junior after a year? Should I keep the "Junior" label on my resume/linkedin if I'm still a Junior?

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#42
This is another reason that, while I understand people’s complaints, I still believe CS interviews should include algorithmic and whiteboard tests. I know they may seem “outdated” or “irrelevant” to some, and yes, it is very unlikely that you will need to implement Dijkstra’s algorithm by hand without any reference, but it is more that it shows a general competence in computing which will transfer to other, more relevant areas. Also, another key insight to whiteboarding is whether you can recognize the fundamental nature of the problem as an instance of another problem, which is essential to CS since the entire field is about solving problems efficiently.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#43
post #7

There is no standard whatsoever for the adjective "Senior" when applied to engineers: Sometimes it means, "Able to work without someone looking over their shoulder at all times." Sometimes it means, "Able to lead and mentor others." And sometimes it means, "Has organizational skills above and beyond engineering skills, able to lead cross-team initiatives and deal with all the human/organization issues around the engi…

On a related note, I dated a woman who was promoted to vice president of a small start up when she was in her 20's. She had to hide her title on her resume when she left because no established firm wanted to hire someone whom they assumed they'd need to pay a quarter million dollars to be competitive. Sometimes grandiose titles can work against you.

A quarter million dollars is what a typical new grad offer looks like nowadays

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#44
post #7

There is no standard whatsoever for the adjective "Senior" when applied to engineers: Sometimes it means, "Able to work without someone looking over their shoulder at all times." Sometimes it means, "Able to lead and mentor others." And sometimes it means, "Has organizational skills above and beyond engineering skills, able to lead cross-team initiatives and deal with all the human/organization issues around the engi…

Looking at many job posts senior means capable of using React and capable of talking about, but not necessarily using, TypeScript. When senior sounds like faster junior I really have trouble finding what actually differentiates a senior from a junior at these organizations.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#45
post #7

There is no standard whatsoever for the adjective "Senior" when applied to engineers: Sometimes it means, "Able to work without someone looking over their shoulder at all times." Sometimes it means, "Able to lead and mentor others." And sometimes it means, "Has organizational skills above and beyond engineering skills, able to lead cross-team initiatives and deal with all the human/organization issues around the engi…

If you look around Indeed, Senior Engineer is basically equal to 5 years experience.

[deleted]

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#46

I've been involved in hiring decisions on teams I've been part of for a long time now. Blatant plagiarism, obvious embellishments and more subtle BS is literally part of the game unfortunately. This is particularly prevalent when dealing with (almost) any consultancy, large and small. I will not specifically call out names, but the some of the largest and most well known consultancies do this as a matter of practice…

I’ll call Infosys out. I’ve worked with people from there who literally did not know how to program. They were moved off quickly. There are some solid people there but hard to find in my experience. Akvelon consultants have been consistently better than some FTEs in my experience.

Infosys, Cognizant, Gap Gemini, TCS, ATT Global Services, Accenture, HCL, Kyndryl, and on, and on, and on goes the list.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's sad, but honestly the prevalence of these practices (and perhaps growth of them?) only makes the genuine among us more valuable. I wish this were the case, but I don't think it's true. On the one hand, real, proven experts do get called in to fix these phonies' messes. On the other, often these people succeed often enough that it devalues our labor as a whole. Finally, if employers cannot determine real experts…

If they succeed then aren't they an acceptable fit for the role? If it devalues the role then that means the job isn't as demanding as the title makes it seem.

The definition of 'success' varies. If you mean 'completed the project on time with decent quality' -> then no, that doesn't happen as often as with tried and true experts.

When I said 'success' I meant: 'achieved a basic level of competency after bungling one or several projects, often with unknown or unquantifiable bugs and then move onto the next company / role with few consequences'.

More succinctly: caused harm to others/ project and still got a paycheck.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#48

This is another reason that, while I understand people’s complaints, I still believe CS interviews should include algorithmic and whiteboard tests. I know they may seem “outdated” or “irrelevant” to some, and yes, it is very unlikely that you will need to implement Dijkstra’s algorithm by hand without any reference, but it is more that it shows a general competence in computing which will transfer to other, more rele…

Funnily enough in my career, whenever I took a job after an algorithm and whiteboard test, I would find myself doing the most basic CRUD applications whereas when I interviewed in a more humane way, by talking and exploring the knowledge set I bring to the table, I ended up working with cool algorithms in some highly technical areas.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#49
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a related note, I dated a woman who was promoted to vice president of a small start up when she was in her 20's. She had to hide her title on her resume when she left because no established firm wanted to hire someone whom they assumed they'd need to pay a quarter million dollars to be competitive. Sometimes grandiose titles can work against you.

A quarter million dollars is what a typical new grad offer looks like nowadays

It's not typical. It is possible though.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#50
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a related note, I dated a woman who was promoted to vice president of a small start up when she was in her 20's. She had to hide her title on her resume when she left because no established firm wanted to hire someone whom they assumed they'd need to pay a quarter million dollars to be competitive. Sometimes grandiose titles can work against you.

A quarter million dollars is what a typical new grad offer looks like nowadays

Where typical = atypical
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