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Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

blog.hidemyass.com

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Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#2
IANAL, but just because your terms say the service may not be used for illegal things it doesn't mean you can't also be culpable.

If I purchase stolen goods from a thief, I might be breaking the law even if the thief has signed a contract swearing the goods aren't stolen.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#3
post #2

IANAL, but just because your terms say the service may not be used for illegal things it doesn't mean you can't also be culpable. If I purchase stolen goods from a thief, I might be breaking the law even if the thief has signed a contract swearing the goods aren't stolen.

That example doesn't really apply since the law is explicit about stolen property, which this case has nothing to do with.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#4
I find curious that they first state this:

"As stated in our terms of service and privacy policy our service is not to be used for illegal activity, and as a legitimate company we will cooperate with law enforcement if we receive a court order"

And then this:

"In 2005 we setup HMA primarily as a way to bypass censorship of the world-wide-web whether this be on a government or a corporate/localized scale."

If censorship is government driven, it means that the law prohibits you to see some things. If you still do it, you get arrested because you are breaking the law. This is an illegal activity and they should cooperate with law enforcement, as stated in the first point.

So, how do they decide what is illegal but permitted and what is not? If they allow some illegal behavior and not some other, they are actually judging the morality of an act, and not if it respect laws.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#5

I find curious that they first state this: "As stated in our terms of service and privacy policy our service is not to be used for illegal activity, and as a legitimate company we will cooperate with law enforcement if we receive a court order" And then this: "In 2005 we setup HMA primarily as a way to bypass censorship of the world-wide-web whether this be on a government or a corporate/localized scale." If censorsh…

I came in here to ask exactly that. They explicitly "forbid" illegal activity and then immediately promote their service as a way of breaking other countries' laws.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#6
post #2

IANAL, but just because your terms say the service may not be used for illegal things it doesn't mean you can't also be culpable. If I purchase stolen goods from a thief, I might be breaking the law even if the thief has signed a contract swearing the goods aren't stolen.

I'm not a lawyer either. I was wondering about this a bit and tried to see if any of the restaurants where Mafia members met in the 70's took any heat because of crimes that had been planned within the establishment and could not find any. (it was the only analogy I could think of which the FBI might use as an example, if there are better ones please add them).

That being said, I would not be surprised if the FBI freely used a 'National Security Letter' [1] to force these guys to turn over data about specific connections. And since, as a service, these guys may be subject to the requirement of giving the FBI a way to wiretap their connections [2] it may be that once they knew the service was being used it was a 'simple' matter of compelling them to provide an unencrypted copy of sessions of interest.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter

[2] http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-153...

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#7

I find curious that they first state this: "As stated in our terms of service and privacy policy our service is not to be used for illegal activity, and as a legitimate company we will cooperate with law enforcement if we receive a court order" And then this: "In 2005 we setup HMA primarily as a way to bypass censorship of the world-wide-web whether this be on a government or a corporate/localized scale." If censorsh…

The simple answer is that if a vendor provides a technology that can be used to facilitate crime, that vendor emphasizes that they made the technology for some nominally lawful purpose. The record companies asserted that cassette tapes were designed to infringe copyright, the manufacturers stressed that they recorded what-ever and there were lots of non-infringing uses for them. Plausible deniability as a stategy perhaps.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#8
post #7

I find curious that they first state this: "As stated in our terms of service and privacy policy our service is not to be used for illegal activity, and as a legitimate company we will cooperate with law enforcement if we receive a court order" And then this: "In 2005 we setup HMA primarily as a way to bypass censorship of the world-wide-web whether this be on a government or a corporate/localized scale." If censorsh…

The simple answer is that if a vendor provides a technology that can be used to facilitate crime, that vendor emphasizes that they made the technology for some nominally lawful purpose. The record companies asserted that cassette tapes were designed to infringe copyright, the manufacturers stressed that they recorded what-ever and there were lots of non-infringing uses for them. Plausible deniability as a stategy per…

That's not the answer.

DeusEx's question boils down to, ``why does the company claim to serve law-breakers (here: citizens breaking censorship), but as soon as law enforcement knocked on their doors, they gave all the info away''. Which is a fair question to ask.

Somehow, the company claims to serve only ethical law breakers, and they want do the judging on ethics.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#9

I find curious that they first state this: "As stated in our terms of service and privacy policy our service is not to be used for illegal activity, and as a legitimate company we will cooperate with law enforcement if we receive a court order" And then this: "In 2005 we setup HMA primarily as a way to bypass censorship of the world-wide-web whether this be on a government or a corporate/localized scale." If censorsh…

I guess to them "censorship" is something only other countries do, not their own. I notice a lot of companies, and even the Government itself, want to fight against censorship in other countries, but when it happens in US, they're more than happy to comply, and sometimes they do it with just one phone call, like in Amazon or Paypal's case with Wikileaks.

Re: Lulzsec fiasco - from HideMyAss VPN provider

#10

I find curious that they first state this: "As stated in our terms of service and privacy policy our service is not to be used for illegal activity, and as a legitimate company we will cooperate with law enforcement if we receive a court order" And then this: "In 2005 we setup HMA primarily as a way to bypass censorship of the world-wide-web whether this be on a government or a corporate/localized scale." If censorsh…

I don't know what else a company can say than we choose to comply with court orders rather than face the consequence of not complying. The comment about bypassing censorship doesn't seem to have any value other than to placate users of the service.
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