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How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

blog.kuperate.com

21–30 of 332 posts

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#21
The place I used to work at hired fresh grads into senior positions exclusively to make the job more attractive. Sr. Engineering (position) had a much wider salary band, so it was apparently easier to hire fresh grads with a Masters degree into those positions, on the lower end of the band, and keep them there for 2-3 years before actually handing out any raises.

We also had very cheap company housing, and a lot of other perks.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#22

I know people who got hired as Staff Engineers fresh from coding bootcamp.

I got senior last summer after 7 and a half years... each to their own I guess! But even now I question the title so no idea how people can do it with 0 years experience and a little bit of JS/React knowledge

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#23
post #13

I know a few people who have gone this route and now have very successful careers. Getting a job as a new grad is hard as it is, and if you are on a visa you barely have a month or two before you must obtain sponsorship or pack up and leave the country. "Consultancies" like this one give you a buffer, beef up your resume with fake experience and give you interview training, with the end goal of getting you a permanen…

While I'm not at all surprised that foreign students could easily get sucked into this kind of scheme what really surprises me is that an American CS grad would not have much better options, especially with all the hype about "lack of workers".

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#24
post #7

There is no standard whatsoever for the adjective "Senior" when applied to engineers: Sometimes it means, "Able to work without someone looking over their shoulder at all times." Sometimes it means, "Able to lead and mentor others." And sometimes it means, "Has organizational skills above and beyond engineering skills, able to lead cross-team initiatives and deal with all the human/organization issues around the engi…

Sometimes it means “someone who can bill $300 an hour” with no relation to actual ability. I was a “senior” three years out of college and I had no clue what in the world I was doing. Come to think of it after 20 years I kinda still feel that way.

So imposter syndrome is justified sometimes is what you're saying?

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#25
post #7

There is no standard whatsoever for the adjective "Senior" when applied to engineers: Sometimes it means, "Able to work without someone looking over their shoulder at all times." Sometimes it means, "Able to lead and mentor others." And sometimes it means, "Has organizational skills above and beyond engineering skills, able to lead cross-team initiatives and deal with all the human/organization issues around the engi…

In the context of 'IT Consulting Companies,' which the blog post is about, it means that clients are paying a higher billable rate than for more 'junior' staff.

I have worked in consulting, and internally, the above was pretty-much our definition of "senior" that we used to determine who was billed out at "senior rates:" The engineers who also had customer-facing skills and coördination skills and understanding the customer's byzantine constraints skills and so forth.

Those who focused on just coding were billed out for less than those who spent time in meetings and writing words.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#26
post #23
post #13

I know a few people who have gone this route and now have very successful careers. Getting a job as a new grad is hard as it is, and if you are on a visa you barely have a month or two before you must obtain sponsorship or pack up and leave the country. "Consultancies" like this one give you a buffer, beef up your resume with fake experience and give you interview training, with the end goal of getting you a permanen…

While I'm not at all surprised that foreign students could easily get sucked into this kind of scheme what really surprises me is that an American CS grad would not have much better options, especially with all the hype about "lack of workers".

I know at least a handful of people who graduated out of my CS program at a very reputed university but probably couldn't do fizzbuzz. And even otherwise, in recent years companies have massively cut down on new grad hiring because they don't want to spend time and money training them. Much easier to poach an experienced engineer from a competitor instead.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#28
post #23
post #13

I know a few people who have gone this route and now have very successful careers. Getting a job as a new grad is hard as it is, and if you are on a visa you barely have a month or two before you must obtain sponsorship or pack up and leave the country. "Consultancies" like this one give you a buffer, beef up your resume with fake experience and give you interview training, with the end goal of getting you a permanen…

While I'm not at all surprised that foreign students could easily get sucked into this kind of scheme what really surprises me is that an American CS grad would not have much better options, especially with all the hype about "lack of workers".

I intend to write a personal take on this topic as well. I am not a CS grad, but I definitely know CS grads who struggled to find work after college. One went to a bootcamp and still couldn't find a job. In my view, we tend to focus on the people that make it easily than those who struggle to get close.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#29
post #7

There is no standard whatsoever for the adjective "Senior" when applied to engineers: Sometimes it means, "Able to work without someone looking over their shoulder at all times." Sometimes it means, "Able to lead and mentor others." And sometimes it means, "Has organizational skills above and beyond engineering skills, able to lead cross-team initiatives and deal with all the human/organization issues around the engi…

If you look around Indeed, Senior Engineer is basically equal to 5 years experience.

My very first job even before I graduated was 'Senior' (not a brag, an indication that the title doesn't mean much.) Mid-level individual contributors at Goldman Sachs are 'Vice President'. These titles can't be read literally, can't be quantified, and can't be compared between companies. Any attempt to do so is futile.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#30

I've been involved in hiring decisions on teams I've been part of for a long time now. Blatant plagiarism, obvious embellishments and more subtle BS is literally part of the game unfortunately. This is particularly prevalent when dealing with (almost) any consultancy, large and small. I will not specifically call out names, but the some of the largest and most well known consultancies do this as a matter of practice…

>It's sad, but honestly the prevalence of these practices (and perhaps growth of them?) only makes the genuine among us more valuable. I wish this were the case, but I don't think it's true. On the one hand, real, proven experts do get called in to fix these phonies' messes. On the other, often these people succeed often enough that it devalues our labor as a whole. Finally, if employers cannot determine real experts…

You bring up a good point...the overall pull downward that the phonies bring to our field. Businesses trust (software) engineering teams less. Perhaps overall industry pay rates are brought down, too, though I don't have personal experience or knowledge about that.

However, that point you make about the 'proven experts' getting called in is where my original (and perhaps overly broad) comment came from. If you can align yourself with the industry as one of those fixers, and then actually deliver on that promise, there is immense value to capture. If you can carefully build a small team of people that can do this regularly, there is even more value to capture and share with people who actually deserve it.

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