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Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

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Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#301

Post by zzzeek »

dragosbulugean wrote: post #154
likecarter wrote: post #46

I don't understand the benefit. It's just a query language on top of Postgres? It doesn't seem to have the performance characteristics of a graph database, while acting like it does. JOINS will still be expensive. You guys shouldn't use the word graph, misleading.

my thoughts exactly... a graph database is not useful because of its query language, it's useful because of its performance characteristics when bringing linked data — it could never be performant on a Postgres backend.

to be fair, I don't know EdgeDB's architecture but to the degree that a system can bring its graph structures into memory, using PostgreSQL as the durable storage but not for every on-demand query, it can certainly provide fast results. I would assume EdgeDB likely has concepts like this integrated into its design.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#302

Post by brainbag »

I'm skeptical of any fancy new database, because they have always been disappointing in one way or another, but this looks really promising!

ORMs work fine for relational data, until there's a lot of edge data on the joins. I looked at the docs on mobile and couldn't find an answer, how does EdgeDB handle data on joins? E.g. GraphQL "connection" types with edges.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#303

Post by RedCrowbar »

samhw wrote: post #294
RedCrowbar wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We compile EdgeQL queries into SQL currently, because it makes the architecture simpler and less us run on unmodifed Postgres, but conceptually nothing stops us from targeting the query planner directly via an extension or an alternative frontend that consumes EdgeQL IR direclty.

Ah, this is interesting: so Postgres is effectively a 'backend' for you, in much the same way that e.g. InnoDB is a backend for MySQL[0]? And you - or hypothetically the end user - could change the backend, e.g. to Cockroach for better horizontal scalability, while trusting that EdgeDB will only rely on Postgres's public API at least in meeting its own public API/contract? [0] It's hard to make that analogy with Post…

That’s exactly right.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#304

Post by torartc »

msully4321 wrote: post #209
torartc wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb question, how do you exit the shell? I feel like I've scoured the docs and can't find it.

What colin said, or (in every terminal emulator I've used), ctrl-d to send end of file, which will close it.

That's interesting, I've always though ctrl-c would close things. I tried so many things like "quit" "exit" ctrl-c "help"

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#305

Post by c4m »

ignoramous wrote: post #268
c4m wrote: post #267

What's a good way to develop a mental model about what's happening under the hood in EdgeDB? With SQL, I have a mental model of how things work under the hood. For instance, I think of each table as being stored separately on disk, containing "rows". And the rows are really just equally-sized data blocks that are laid out back to back. B+ trees, with leaf nodes that point to (or just are) the rows, are used for index…

> What's a good way to develop a mental model about what's happening under the hood in EdgeDB? At the physical schema level [0] or at the conceptual schema level [1]? This answer from edgedb CTO might clear the latter up; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30291538 As for the former, I guess it is the same as however Postgres (pg) chooses to represent the edge-db tables. EdgeDB (graph on pg) sounds like Timescale (…

I'm wondering about the physical level—or at least how the EdgeDB conceptual level is translated to the Postgres conceptual level. The docs, and the comment you linked to, have helped me get pretty clear about the EdgeDB conceptual level.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#306

Post by hotfixguru »

If anyone makes this work with heroku Postgres, let me know!

I started a container and connected it, but instantly got an email from heroku telling me i had 19500 of my 10000 rows, and 215 tables. Not really any hobby-project viable priced hosting options in their documentation.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#307

Post by msully4321 »

c4m wrote: post #305
ignoramous wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's a good way to develop a mental model about what's happening under the hood in EdgeDB? At the physical schema level [0] or at the conceptual schema level [1]? This answer from edgedb CTO might clear the latter up; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30291538 As for the former, I guess it is the same as however Postgres (pg) chooses to represent the edge-db tables. EdgeDB (graph on pg) sounds like Timescale (…

I'm wondering about the physical level—or at least how the EdgeDB conceptual level is translated to the Postgres conceptual level. The docs, and the comment you linked to, have helped me get pretty clear about the EdgeDB conceptual level.

I talked a bit about this in my release day talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRZ3o-NsU_4&t=8151s), but:

* Every edgedb type has a postgres table

* "single" properties and links are stored as columns in that table (links as the uuid of the target)

* "multi" properties/links are stored as a link table

So it's basically just translated to a relational database in normal form

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#308

Post by colinmcd »

maxhq wrote: post #279
colinmcd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EdgeDB employee here. I couldn't have asked for a better question to demonstrate the power of subqueries! Here's how I'd do this in EdgeQL: with tag_names := {"angular", "nestjs", "cypress", "nx"}, select BlogPost { title, tag_names := .tags.name, match_count := count((select .tags filter .name in tag_names)) } order by .match_count desc; Which would give you a result like this: [ { title: 'All the frameworks!', tag_…

Do I understand this correctly in that if the list goes on, it will also show posts with unrelated tags in tag_names? As the filter is only applied to match_count? So to only get blog posts with matching tags we would need to add a filter „match_count > 0“, right? Update: I am very excited about EdgeDB :)

Yep, you understand correctly!

  with tag_names := {"angular", "nestjs", "cypress", "nx"},
  select BlogPost {
    title,
    tag_names := .tags.name,
    match_count := count((select .tags filter .name in tag_names))
  }
  filter .match_count > 0
  order by .match_count desc;

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#309

Post by JadedBlueEyes »

electroly wrote: post #269
RedCrowbar wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not something we plan to do in the near future, but it’s also not outside the realm of possibility. We picked Postgres because of its power, quality and unparalleled extensibility, but we are also very careful to not leak any implementation details into our interfaces.

I'm curious how this squares up with what someone linked elsewhere: https://github.com/edgedb/edgedb/discussions/3403 > EdgeDB does not treat Postgres as a simple standard SQL store. The opposite is true. To realize the full potential of the graph-relational model and EdgeQL efficiently, we must squeeze every last bit of functionality out of PostgreSQL's implementation of SQL and its schema. I don't see how this and…

I think what they mean by this is that EdgeDB's query language should not be coupled to Postgres, but EdgeDB itself should use Postgres specific SQL features to maximise performance - so you couldn't drop in MariaDB without changing code in EdgeDB, but in theory you could write another backend that takes the same queries and uses MariaDB or MongoDB or something custom under the hood.

Re: Show HN: EdgeDB 1.0

#310

Post by ignoramous »

msully4321 wrote: post #307
c4m wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering about the physical level—or at least how the EdgeDB conceptual level is translated to the Postgres conceptual level. The docs, and the comment you linked to, have helped me get pretty clear about the EdgeDB conceptual level.

I talked a bit about this in my release day talk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRZ3o-NsU_4&t=8151s ), but: * Every edgedb type has a postgres table * "single" properties and links are stored as columns in that table (links as the uuid of the target) * "multi" properties/links are stored as a link table So it's basically just translated to a relational database in normal form

> So it's basically just translated to a relational database in normal form

So... just an ORM ;)

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