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Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

nature.com

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Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#301

Post by mschuster91 »

jcbrand wrote: post #234
jmpman wrote: post #139

New Zealand has been basically isolated and Covid free for the past year. Their population is approaching 95% vaccinated. It would be interesting to see statistics on heart disease rates in their population over the past year, as we could then be certain any increase is vaccine related and not Covid related.

It can be both. It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males. It seems to be that the spike protein is responsible for this, which is present in both the virus and the vaccine.

> It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males.

An Israeli study showed an incidence rate of 2.13 cases/100k people [1] - the common incidence rate for myocarditis in the US is ~22/100k [2].

COVID-19 itself has a 146/100k incidence of myocarditis, in contrast [3].

So please, stop spreading that "vaccines increase the rate of myocarditis", there is no evidence that supports this. And especially, get vaccinated because the complications from COVID-19 are way worse both in severity and rate.

[1]: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737

[2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S073510971...

[3]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#302

Post by irishsultan »

verisimi wrote: post #233
ummonk wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this was a case of omicron (which is more flu-like in terms of which parts of the human body it targets), pre-omicron variants of Covid were certainly very different from the flu, and in particular more likely to target the nervous system. And a lot of respiratory viruses (both flu and other influenza-like viruses) do cause major effects on the human body sometimes. E.g. when I got hit with the flu in 2009 (mig…

Having an effect on the lungs makes sense to me - its a respiratory illness. But why would a respiratory disease cause blood clots?

Why wouldn't it? Or rather, why do you think that by labeling a disease as being respiratory it suddenly can only affect the respiratory system?

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#303

Post by rsfern »

mikevm wrote: post #193
lucd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine antigen is only a small part of the virus. Furthermore is was modified and is inert. https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behi... Because of international pharmacovigilance we know that ARNm vaccine induce some myocarditis and pericarditis, at a much lower rate than the virus and less severe.

The spike protein in the vaccine is not fully inert: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084611 > The free-floating Spike proteins synthetized by cells targeted by vaccine and destroyed by the immune response circulate in the blood and systematically interact with angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptors expressed by a variety of cells including platelets, thereby promoting ACE2 internalization and…

That paper was interesting and the bit about clinical trials is important, but they don’t really offer much evidence that there are substantial concentrations of free floating spike proteins in the blood following vaccination, or that this would be the cause of the inflammatory and thrombotic reactions, vs just the more general immune response

As far as I can tell they’re just citing this one paper about the ACE2 degradation, and the study doesn’t directly address SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination at all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4231883/?r...

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#304

Post by agumonkey »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #277
lampe3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know two people who have basically the same story. One was a runner a Marathon was nothing for him and now almost a year later he can do a half Marathon. The other one was a natural body builder. They know the weights they can push. He told me that 8 Months after Covid he was down 20% in weights.

This isn't really specific to COVID though, any serious illness can do a real number on you. Anecdote: I'm an avid runner and cyclist, but after I had dengue fever, it took me months to regain my fitness. I used to run 10K's before breakfast, but the first time I attempted a 5 km walk afterwards, I was basically comatose for the rest of the day.

It would be interesting (to at least one person) to have good rehab plans. How long did it take for you to go back to easy 10Ks

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#305

Post by qbasic_forever »

PunchTornado wrote: post #248
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omicron is not unstoppable. See mainland China. See Taiwan.

omicron is endemic in a lot of parts of the world already. it will never dissapear. china cannot adopt quarantine measures indefinitely.

Really? They've made it 2 years now with small outbreaks in the low hundreds of cases. It seems they are adapting and keeping up their quarantine measures just fine.

Look at the Olympics going on in Beijing right now. It's halfway over and hasn't caused a surge in cases. When Tokyo had the olympics this summer there were major outbreaks and rises in cases through the entire city, and Japan was left with a major nationwide surge in the aftermath of the games. It doesn't look like China is going to face nearly as bad of an outcome.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#306

Post by f6v »

qwertox wrote: post #46
f6v wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Heart Problems After Covid Are Much Worse for the Vaccinated, Nature Study Shows It might as well be that those who are vaccinated and still get sick are just predisposed to heart complications. Saying they get those because they were vaccinated is a fallacy.

Didn't even request his "findings" to be peer reviewed. Or ask the authors to clarify his questions. Just assumes some stuff and hits it out with a catchy headline.

That’s a good point. Not asking the authors to clarify confusing parts is considered a dick move in academia.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#307

Post by rightbyte »

GuB-42 wrote: post #278
madballster wrote: post #270

Many of the "Covid-19 increases risk of XYZ" popular media articles lack baseline comparisons to other virus infections. (Disclaimer: Yes, we know Covid-19 isn't the flu, and it's more deadly.) My point is: how much does heart-disease risk increase post-Covid compared to say post-Influenza? Is it comparable or is the risk magnitudes larger than with other virus infections? This is an important benchmark, I understand…

The only study that I've seen compare Covid-19 to the flu is one related to long-covid. You can have long-covid-like symptoms after the flu, but it is about twice more likely with Covid-19 than with the flu. https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jo... I guess there are others, I just didn't randomly stumbled across them.

That is depressing to read. Wont Covid19 cannibalize on other coronaviruses' "market share"?

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#308

Post by qbasic_forever »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #299
brainphreeze wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trusting the numbers that come out of China, yeah right. Taking a look at your post history, you seem to spend a considerable amount of time defending China, what's up with that?

It's not necessary to trust the numbers. If they had large outbreaks, we would know. We are talking about a country of 1.4 billion people which has plenty of contact with the outside world, it's not North Korea. They could cook the numbers but it would just be impossible to hide widespread community spread.

And we can be darn sure the CIA would be screaming from the rooftops of all its propaganda outlets the perceived failings or weaknesses in China's COVID response. The silence there is all you need to hear to know what's up.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#309

Post by nicoburns »

scotty79 wrote: post #286
jcbrand wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be both. It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males. It seems to be that the spike protein is responsible for this, which is present in both the virus and the vaccine.

I think this is far from estabilished. I think increase in myocarditis in young males could be fully explained by how they changed their (social) behavior after getting their second dose after a year of lockdowns. Exposing themselves to additional risks including covid which we know the vaccine doesn't protect completely against.

My anecdotal experience doesn’t chime with this. I got myocarditis with a covid infection in Apr 2020. Then again, starting almost exactly 24 hours after my first vaccine dose just as other flu-like symptoms kicked in.

The rates are low, but I’m pretty sure it can have this effect.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#310

Post by f6v »

Ambolia wrote: post #68
f6v wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check for what? Spurious correlations?

Yes, I think if you apply a medical treatment approved on emergency grounds to most of the population it would be a good idea to track their health and raise an alarm if something changes, or "correlates" as you say. Maybe even have control groups just in case. But maybe that's just me being unreasonable.

I think these vaccines are already held to an incredibly high standard. AZ use was put on hold here in Europe after just couple cases of blood clotting. Same for Moderna when there’s been the cases of heart issues.
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