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Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

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Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#281

Post by yay_throw »

laurent92 wrote: post #98
kodah wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had Delta once. Prior to it I would ride 30 miles on my bike like it was a breezy day. When I'd take breaks to vacation or whatever I could pick back up easily. A year after COVID, I'm struggling to hit 20 miles and I lose my progress easily. I'm not sure it's COVID related, but nothing else has changed in my life.

Lockdowns have also broken everyone’s regular exercise and healthy habits. On charts we all assign this to Covid, but lockdowns were an artificial, additional decision.

All of the replies to this completely ignore those of us who have families, and especially young families. Good for you if the sudden removal of responsibilities gave you the freedom to get outside for long periods every day. However, frankly people like this were the main reason I had to quit Strava. While my wife and I struggled to hold our lives and jobs together when it became illegal to have anyone else look after our kids, I had to watch everyone else enjoy day-long rides and runs in the hills.

And before you come out with the usual "you just need to use more imagination and take your kids with you" - for a start, the situation I described above drained more energy and life than I care to remember. Also, there's only so much a 1 year old will put up with, when I am used to rides of up to 100 miles.

Personally, I am deeply embittered by the whole experience.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#282

Post by stephen_g »

madballster wrote: post #270

Many of the "Covid-19 increases risk of XYZ" popular media articles lack baseline comparisons to other virus infections. (Disclaimer: Yes, we know Covid-19 isn't the flu, and it's more deadly.) My point is: how much does heart-disease risk increase post-Covid compared to say post-Influenza? Is it comparable or is the risk magnitudes larger than with other virus infections? This is an important benchmark, I understand…

Yeah, a lot of these viruses seem to do damage to the heart. I saw this study recently [1] about the flu vaccine reducing mortality in those with cardiovascular disease and I wonder if it would apply more generally in reducing risk of CVD in those who don’t have it?

1. https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.120.019636

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#283

Post by scotty79 »

madballster wrote: post #270

Many of the "Covid-19 increases risk of XYZ" popular media articles lack baseline comparisons to other virus infections. (Disclaimer: Yes, we know Covid-19 isn't the flu, and it's more deadly.) My point is: how much does heart-disease risk increase post-Covid compared to say post-Influenza? Is it comparable or is the risk magnitudes larger than with other virus infections? This is an important benchmark, I understand…

It's best to remeber that even if covid was in all aspects identical to flu, it will not replace flu. We'll have covid and flu. So even in the best case scenario (which isn't real) we are facing doubling of dmg from seasonal flu.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#284

Post by Gibbon1 »

jfoster wrote: post #92
tempestn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone will eventually be exposed to covid (probably repeatedly). It's possible with vaccinations that not everyone will be infected with covid however, as even against omicron it appears 3 doses of vaccine (especially a mix of pfizer and moderna) provide efficacy of 60%+ for at least 15 weeks. Omicron-specific versions of the mRNA vaccines are also already in testing, so I would hope those will be available for fu…

Related to your "exposed to" vs "infected" point, I've been wanting to check my understanding on something, and hopefully someone here can provide a more informed opinion. Immunity can be boosted through exposure, right? For instance, if someone was vaccinated, but then exposed and was lucky enough not to develop an infection from their exposure, are they immunologically better off as a result of that exposure? I thi…

I saw a blurb about tests of a two part vaccine on mine. First dose an mRNA vaccine injection. Second dose is intranasal naked spike protein. Provided good protection when the mice were challenged. The spike protein isn't infectious. Part of the motivation behind intranasal vaccines is the hope that mucosal immunity provides better protection.

Also read a summary of influenza challenge studies. People exposed to low doses often seroconverted asymptomatically.

I feel it's plausible small exposures after vaccination would build more protection.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#285

Post by kccoder »

laurent92 wrote: post #98
kodah wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had Delta once. Prior to it I would ride 30 miles on my bike like it was a breezy day. When I'd take breaks to vacation or whatever I could pick back up easily. A year after COVID, I'm struggling to hit 20 miles and I lose my progress easily. I'm not sure it's COVID related, but nothing else has changed in my life.

Lockdowns have also broken everyone’s regular exercise and healthy habits. On charts we all assign this to Covid, but lockdowns were an artificial, additional decision.

I ride a bike 3k+ miles a year, every year for the past 15 years, on the various trails near me and I can say with absolute certainty that the volume of people running, biking, walking, ... on those same trails more than tripled at the beginning of the pandemic and have yet to decrease back to baseline. I don't know about those individuals exercise habits prior to the pandemic, but they certainly weren't on the trails.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#286

Post by scotty79 »

jcbrand wrote: post #234
jmpman wrote: post #139

New Zealand has been basically isolated and Covid free for the past year. Their population is approaching 95% vaccinated. It would be interesting to see statistics on heart disease rates in their population over the past year, as we could then be certain any increase is vaccine related and not Covid related.

It can be both. It's already known that vaccines increase rates of Myocarditis, especially amongst young males. It seems to be that the spike protein is responsible for this, which is present in both the virus and the vaccine.

I think this is far from estabilished.

I think increase in myocarditis in young males could be fully explained by how they changed their (social) behavior after getting their second dose after a year of lockdowns. Exposing themselves to additional risks including covid which we know the vaccine doesn't protect completely against.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#287

Post by alamortsubite »

usrusr wrote: post #268
jcbrand wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were breakthrough cases pre-omicron, but apparently less. What was very dishonest in the way this whole thing has been handled and portrayed is that Coronavirus vaccine escape-variants were completely foreseeable and therefore no surprise.

And still, the best backtrace we can find for omicron leads far away from any vaccinated populations. Just pointing out because your words seem to lean suggestively towards implying a causal relationship. You know what might, perhaps have prevented omicron? The whole world going "China" January/February/March 2020. But only perhaps, because OG SarsCov2 was so capable of jumping between species that it would have like…

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#288

Post by wyattpeak »

refurb wrote: post #264
wyattpeak wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect it to be similar to the flu? Covid is entirely unrelated to the flu. SARS killed fifteen percent of people who got it. Was that due to treatment, since the flu doesn't do that?

People seem to underestimate complications of the flu. What does the CDC say? https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm Similarities: Both COVID-19 and flu can result in complications, including: Pneumonia Respiratory failure Acute respiratory distress syndrome (fluid in the lungs) Sepsis (a life-threatening illness caused by the body’s extreme response to an infection) Cardiac injury (for example, heart at…

That may be so but feels tangential to my point. Perhaps address the parent to my comment? They're the one who believes that this is a symptom not present in the flu.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#289

Post by usrusr »

inciampati wrote: post #205
raverbashing wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only % risk is misleading. From the conclusion of the PDF linked: > In summary, the risk of hospital admission or death from myocarditis is greater following COVID-19 infection than following vaccination and remains modest following sequential doses of mRNA vaccine including a third booster dose of BNT162b in the overall population. However, the risk of myocarditis following vaccination is consistently higher in youn…

This concurs with what OP is saying, but the statement is in effect misleading. The vaccine induced myocarditis risk is higher in young males. The numbers also indicate this is even higher than the risk from COVID-19 infection in that group. However, in the population in aggregate the vaccine is less likely to cause this side effect than infection.

My pet hypothesis: people who are into one of the many athletic pastimes, particularly those with a competitive component, will all do exactly one thing when faced with an appointment that comes with an attached "take a rest from exercising afterwards": they will schedule a particularly intensive workout the day before so that those rest days "don't go to waste". (source: I'm one of those and very few in my social circle don't match that pattern)

But the risk association might very well be not so much the exercise happening while under immune stress but the processes that happen during recovery doing their thing while under immune stress. Usually immune stress means infection and we don't get to schedule our infections, so this distinction (exercise time vs recovery time) will be very much unexplored.

Young males tend to be more into performance-oriented training (competitive, or focused on metrics, or both) than other population groups, and with an actual infection it might even be that the relevant immune stress does not really start before more direct symptoms suggest taking a break. Could be as simple as shifting the "no sports" instruction that comes with the jab a few days backwards.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#290

Post by echelon »

mikevm wrote: post #193
lucd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine antigen is only a small part of the virus. Furthermore is was modified and is inert. https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behi... Because of international pharmacovigilance we know that ARNm vaccine induce some myocarditis and pericarditis, at a much lower rate than the virus and less severe.

The spike protein in the vaccine is not fully inert: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084611 > The free-floating Spike proteins synthetized by cells targeted by vaccine and destroyed by the immune response circulate in the blood and systematically interact with angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptors expressed by a variety of cells including platelets, thereby promoting ACE2 internalization and…

In the case of vaccine only / no infection, is vaccine-mediated inflammation long lasting and damaging? These effects in the paper (platelet aggregation, thrombosis) seem to be capable of causing permanent harm. Platelet aggregation seems like it would cause small amounts of systemic endothelial damage, atherosclerosis, thombrosis, ...

The level of inflammation no doubt varies on a case by case / individual basis, but is it possible that nobody gets out of the pandemic without some level of stress on their pulmonary and circulatory systems?

To state this succinctly, did Covid (whether infected or vaccinated) shave a few days off of all of our lives?

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