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Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

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Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#191

Let me translate this into practical arguments depicting where this leads (how both dangerous and stupid it is). If this bill passes, imagine a world where: - all cloud files, activity, messages, regular over internet activity (provided by any legal company registered in US or wanting to operate in the US) etc shall be readable by the government - this would apply to ALL countries in the world - all companies will no…

It would destroy the US tech sector. In Europe, no company would be permitted to store any data on any servers operated by a U.S. company. They might go further and require the company to have no association with the U.S. counterpart, if this Bill is sufficiently broad, which I believe it is. In other words, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Dropbox, Apple, Amazon, etc. etc. would lose their entire European customer base.…

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Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#192

Section 5: “[Use of end to end encryption] shall not serve as an independent basis for liability of a provider […]” but the fact that you did so can now be used against you in court. The spirit of this bill is to make WhatsApp liable from the moment they become aware of specific instances of child pornography being shared on their platform, and only then after they’ve been shown to be doing nothing to take it down. I…

That section was added to the original 2020 bill as an amendment by Senator Patrick Leahy. The Center for Internet and Society (Stanford Law School) has a blog post explaining why that section is not strong enough to shield service providers that offer end-to-end encryption from legal liability:

> Leahy’s encryption amendment isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. There’s still skepticism among tech policy wonks and cryptographers alike over Leahy’s encryption amendment. It essentially gives providers a defense against liability, which is less strong than the a priori immunity from liability in the first place that Section 230 currently provides.

> CDT predicts that it will invite prolonged litigation over whether potential liability is “because of” the provider’s use of encryption (if so, the case is barred) or because of some other reason (if so, no bar).[3] CDT told CyberScoop that the “consistent threat of litigation … will be a strong disincentive against providing [end-to-end encryption] and continuing to have to defend that decision in court.” With potentially wide variation in state CSAM laws, “the worry,” as Techdirt says, “is that we won't know whether or not offering end-to-end encryption would be seen as violating state laws until long and costly cases go through their lengthy process.” The Internet Society’s Joe Hall agreed, telling CyberScoop that the amendment is “a fig leaf of protection for strong encryption” that leaves providers “to fight it out in court, which is far from cementing protection and clarity for encryption, the bedrock of our lives on the internet and in the real world.” I couldn’t have said it better.

> It’s not clear how many cases against providers would actually be precluded by Leahy’s amendment. Plaintiffs and state AGs could readily come up with other grounds besides encryption on which to premise liability for an encrypted service (at least as a pretext, even if encryption is really the ultimate reason they’re mad). CDT also points out that the Leahy amendment doesn’t stop the AG-headed commission from recommending anti-encryption best practices (as any commission with Bill Barr at the helm will likely do). That would’ve been a freebie for Leahy to throw in, especially with the commission’s fangs removed anyway.

https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2020/07/earn-it-act-threa...

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#193
I guess this is the end of "sending customer data to the us". Quite impressive how fast the US-politics can burn billions in $, endanger the technological lead and build a massive opportunity for Europe!

I, as a European could not be happier about this, from a economic standpoint.

Hope you guys over there are not drifting to a surveillance dystopian.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather the US than the PRC or Putin though. But I'd prefer the EU, imo.

Don't hold your breath. We have plenty of political forces here that don't like encrypted communication. SPD in Germany would gladly see Telegram be completely banned. They even brag about this in their own party-media: https://www.vorwaerts.de/artikel/innenpolitik-spd-gegen-tele...

Isn't this criticism of Telegram about hate speach rather than encryption? If you wanted to ban encryption, Telegram would be the least of your worries.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#195

What I don't see in the writeup, is which senators are voting which way. I can tell from the writeup what Blumenthal thinks of it, but not any other committee participants. I really wish politicians would embrace a "we will make policies for things we can understand" motto.

> I really wish politicians would embrace a "we will make policies for things we can understand" motto. I don't think they'd make many policies if that were the case

That's assuming policies are made for the good of society, and not the good of the policy makers.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#196

This could only work if there are monopolies that work with the government. I don't think we're there yet, but it is concerning that lawmakers view this as a viable piece of legislation. I wish we had a legislature who would recognize the importance of net neutrality to fostering competition. Instead, bills like this seem focused on ensuring monopolies so they can control how they operate.

Ever heard from PRISM?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#197

The Achilles' heel of the internet is that it's controlled by the US.

Yeah let’s move it to Russia and China, that will make it more free

The internet doesn't need to be controlled by a single country, and there are other countries in the world besides the US, Russia, and China.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#198
post #196

This could only work if there are monopolies that work with the government. I don't think we're there yet, but it is concerning that lawmakers view this as a viable piece of legislation. I wish we had a legislature who would recognize the importance of net neutrality to fostering competition. Instead, bills like this seem focused on ensuring monopolies so they can control how they operate.

Ever heard from PRISM? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

Yes I was around for Snowden. That program doesn't concern me nearly as much as trying to ban encryption altogether which is what this bill appears to be trying to do.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#199

Let me translate this into practical arguments depicting where this leads (how both dangerous and stupid it is). If this bill passes, imagine a world where: - all cloud files, activity, messages, regular over internet activity (provided by any legal company registered in US or wanting to operate in the US) etc shall be readable by the government - this would apply to ALL countries in the world - all companies will no…

The "misguidedness" (is that a word?) of it all reminds me so much of Cory Doctorow's "The Coming War on General Purpose Computation"[0][1].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg

[1] https://github.com/jwise/28c3-doctorow/blob/master/transcrip...

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#200

The Achilles' heel of the internet is that it's controlled by the US.

Rather the US than the PRC or Putin though. But I'd prefer the EU, imo.

I would prefer Iceland, let's make Iceland the Sheppard of the Internet-(Core) ;)
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