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Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

nature.com

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Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#221

Post by arisAlexis »

inciampati wrote: post #170
lucd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine antigen is only a small part of the virus. Furthermore is was modified and is inert. https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behi... Because of international pharmacovigilance we know that ARNm vaccine induce some myocarditis and pericarditis, at a much lower rate than the virus and less severe.

There is not evidence that heart inflammation after vaccination is less common or severe than after COVID-19 infection. For instance: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v... suggests rates several fold higher for vaccination than infection. Not to say that on balance vaccination is anything but preferable to naive infection, but it's not a side effect free panacea.

This has been debunked many times

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#222

Post by MauranKilom »

Thorentis wrote: post #155

> For example, people in the contemporary control group weren’t tested for COVID-19, so it’s possible that some of them actually had mild infections. How doesn't this completely invalidate the title? If we aren't actually comparing between a group that provably did not have COVID and one that did, we can't possibly draw any conclusions about the effect of having COVID compared to not having it at all.

Isn't it the opposite? If there's a strong effect in "had COVID" vs "probably did not have COVID", doesn't that prove that there would be an even stronger effect in "had COVID" vs "definitely did not have COVID"?

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#223

Post by ummonk »

wesleywt wrote: post #16
isolli wrote: post #8

What I would like to know is, for young males (i.e. those who are most at risk of myocarditis after the vaccine), does the vaccine lessen cardiac risks in a subsequent infection or not?

The rate of myocarditis is much higher if you get Covid than if you get the vaccine . So indirectly getting vaccine will lower your risk since of heart disease as everyone will eventually get covid.

The change in conditional probability though likely flips when considering the third dose - the third dose is most likely to cause myocarditis, and least likely to protect against severe covid causing myocarditis (because the first two doses are already providing a high level of protection).

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#224

Post by arisAlexis »

nodamage wrote: post #220

It is important to note that given the timeline in the study (March 2020 to Jan 2021) most of the COVID-19 group was likely unvaccinated. It remains to be seen whether vaccination protects against these same risks. Edit: This is confirmed in the supplementary data. Only 347 (0.23%) of the 162,690 people in the COVID-19 group were vaccinated prior to infection. That being said, a reasonably large percentage (61.93%) w…

It's crazy that they do not say anything in their study about the biggest confound ever, the vaccine.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#225

Post by doubleunplussed »

mikevm wrote: post #200
jmpman wrote: post #139

New Zealand has been basically isolated and Covid free for the past year. Their population is approaching 95% vaccinated. It would be interesting to see statistics on heart disease rates in their population over the past year, as we could then be certain any increase is vaccine related and not Covid related.

Ugh, do you not realize that the vaccine does not stop you from getting and transmitting the virus?

Pre-omicron, it did. Australia and New Zealand were pretty much at the herd immunity threshold from vaccination, before even getting much third dose coverage or vaccinating children.

Omicron is sufficiently immune-escaping that it changed that, but I continue to be surprised how many people don't realise that the vaccines were actually very effective at preventing infection and transmission for pre-omicron variants.

Edit: I don't mean they prevented infection and transmission 100%, obviously. But for two doses the total reduction in transmission was like 80%, and higher still for three doses. This is more than most people (other than Australians and NZers who watched vaccination bend the curves in real time) realise, from the way people talk you'd think the vaccines barely reduced infection and transmission at all.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#226

Post by dTal »

mikevm wrote: post #200
jmpman wrote: post #139

New Zealand has been basically isolated and Covid free for the past year. Their population is approaching 95% vaccinated. It would be interesting to see statistics on heart disease rates in their population over the past year, as we could then be certain any increase is vaccine related and not Covid related.

Ugh, do you not realize that the vaccine does not stop you from getting and transmitting the virus?

It probably does reduce transmission because it helps your body defeat it more rapidly, in some cases so quickly that you don't even notice you had it. More rapidly = less time to transmit it to other people.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#227

Post by passerby1 »

bjoli wrote: post #164
dijit wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think on a macro scale you're right, attitudes and disciplines are also somewhat to blame. Sweden, though, did not lock down, and I hear (and experience) the same issue as the parent. The first day back after COVID and I reached my max heart rate in 60s of moderate jogging.

Both my gym and pool were closed for almost half a year in Sweden.

In Göteborg SATS nor Friskis&Svettis were never closed during the pandemic. I also knew that Fitness24 was open all the way too. Which gym are you talking about?

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#229

Post by ummonk »

yaris wrote: post #101
gypsyharlot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is competely wrong. See https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v...

As I read the text of the study ( https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v ...) it directly says: "First, we confirm and extend our previous findings in more than 42 million persons that the risk of hospitalization or death from myocarditis following COVID-19 infection is higher than the risk associated with vaccination in the overall population." Is it another study you have where the risk [] is…

"in the overall population" does a lot of heavy lifting there. Young males are both more vulnerable to vaccine-induced myocarditis and far less vulnerable to severe covid than the general population.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#230

Post by walterbell »

nodamage wrote: post #220

It is important to note that given the timeline in the study (March 2020 to Jan 2021) most of the COVID-19 group was likely unvaccinated. It remains to be seen whether vaccination protects against these same risks. Edit: This is confirmed in the supplementary data. Only 347 (0.23%) of the 162,690 people in the COVID-19 group were vaccinated prior to infection. That being said, a reasonably large percentage (61.93%) w…

Paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01689-3

That's the pool of 60+ year-old veterans who were selected after testing positive and then subsequently monitored for one year.

It is likely that many were vaccinated during the 1-year period from Jan 2021 - Jan 2022.

e.g. as of July 2021, the VA % vaccinated was about 50%, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/07/26/va-man...

We know that mRNA vaccines have resulted in negative cardiac consequences in some patients, although that has mostly been in younger men.

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