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Starship Update [video]

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Re: Starship Update [video]

#211

Post by DocTomoe »

elkos wrote: post #171
terafo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is much easier to get protected from radiation on mars, than in the outer space. Nobody knows for certain how would childbirth look like in zero g and it's just the one of many problems. Mars is much more hospitable than pure vacuum.

By building underground structures?

Technically, every structure encapsulating space makes that space "underground" - the distinction between natural rocks or poured concrete as a ceiling is negligible when it comes to radiation protection. Whenever we set up a sunshade, we are protecting ourselves from harmful radiation.

Putting more material between you and radiation by burying into the ground is a good idea, especially when your concrete-pouring capabilities are limited.

Re: Starship Update [video]

#212

Post by beambot »

jltsiren wrote: post #167
proggy wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concerns about cost per flight aside, how would one go about locating spaceports near enough to urban centers for this concept to be viable? If a fully fueled airliner crashes in an urban area, it’s devastating. Now consider a fully fueled rocket — would the crash be an order of of magnitude worse? Perhaps I still have the “rockets are inherently dangerous, mitigate bad outcomes by isolating them” mentality. Maybe de…

There are many safety and security issues that must be solved before suborbital passenger flights become viable. Some involve national security. For example, can you imagine a world where the US, Russia, and China keep launching ICBMs at each other all the time? Others involve more mundane risks that are pretty much guaranteed to occur once in a while. Things like losing cabin pressure or something catching fire. How…

China is supposedly doing it: "China’s New Winged Rocket Can Soar From New York to Beijing in 1 Hour"

https://interestingengineering.com/chinas-new-winged-rocket-...

And SpaceX won a contract to transport cargo: "SpaceX wins $102 million Air Force contract to transport military cargo and humanitarian aid around the world in a rocket"

https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-wins-air-force-contra...

Re: Starship Update [video]

#213

Post by londons_explore »

oxplot wrote: post #203
irrational wrote: post #6

This is the first time I’ve ever heard him speak. Is he always this awkward? Based off of the 5 minutes I watched, he clearly hasn’t gotten to where he is through charisma and public speaking skills. I’m just wondering if this is typical for him. Also, a million tons to Mars? If each starship lifts 100 tons, that is 10,000 launches. I think he said launch windows only come around every 2 years. He is either planning…

> He is either planning on building thousands of Starships or taking many years. Yes, he does have a plan to build thousands of spaceships. See previous presentations of his from 2016, 2017 and 2019. Starting a self sustaining civilization on another planet is not a walk in the park. It will take decades and a lot of $$$.

I worry about the economics of that $$$...

How many people in England invested in the exploration of America and got a return on their investment?

And in today's political landscape it seems even less likely you'd get a decent return on investment - the days of high taxes on the colonies to pay for expansion are over...

Re: Starship Update [video]

#214

Post by beambot »

rtpg wrote: post #13
sillysaurusx wrote: post #5

"It's gonna be cramped, dangerous, difficult, very hard work. You might die." -- Elon's sales pitch for Mars, in his own words. I wonder if any billionaire (or their children) will be doing the early work. It's an interesting game of "Who values their life the least?" knowing that their sacrifice will make for a better future. Of course, it's not a foregone conclusion that there will be a disaster. But over the cours…

Why do we need to fly 3 months to some inhospitable planet that is in worse condition than Earth would be (even after nuclear wars and global warming) to make progress? I suppose there's an idea we could apply everything done on Mars to Earth, but like... seriously, what we just took all the prep for mars and just put it in the middle of the Empty Quarter, the Saraha, Antarctica? People barely want to live in the arc…

Pioneering spirit, without the colonialism.

Re: Starship Update [video]

#215

Post by [deleted] »

oxplot wrote: post #207
garbagetime wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're presenting a false dichotomy. Our options aren't only (a) live only on Earth, and (b) live on Earth and Mars and potentially other planets. There is, for example, (c) live in man-made structures orbiting the sun at a distance of 1AU, which is debatedly much more sensible than trying to live on Mars.

> much more sensible than trying to live on Mars It's more sensible if you plan to keep a bunch of people there with constant supply from Earth. Elon wants to build a *self-sustaining* city on Mars. There isn't any other choice of location, be it man-made, or in the solar system: - that has enough resources, atmosphere, gravity, water to allow a non-trivial population to survive without help from Earth - that is hosp…

[deleted]

Re: Starship Update [video]

#216

Post by wnkrshm »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #5

"It's gonna be cramped, dangerous, difficult, very hard work. You might die." -- Elon's sales pitch for Mars, in his own words. I wonder if any billionaire (or their children) will be doing the early work. It's an interesting game of "Who values their life the least?" knowing that their sacrifice will make for a better future. Of course, it's not a foregone conclusion that there will be a disaster. But over the cours…

How do the politics of a Mars colony work? Say Elon controls the sole means of supplying the colony from Earth - do the colonists effectively become hostages? What if they mutiny? Will the supplies stop coming? Is this murder? Many questions.

Re: Starship Update [video]

#217

Post by londons_explore »

panick21_ wrote: post #33

The Raptor 2 engine is just an absurd. The original specs were already kind of insane. But Raptor 2 is an monster. They really pushed already significantly into a second generation design before first flight. Raptor 2 is not just a slight upgrade, its a huge upgrade. If it can actually launch multiple times a day without any refurbishment, it will simply totally break space travel as we have known it. This engine mak…

If they are making such big upgrades before even getting to orbit, it suggests the rest of their design is falling short of expectations on mass/performance, and they need more thrust to make up for it.

Re: Starship Update [video]

#218

Post by nullifidian »

Transport is not the main technical issue in making life multi-planetary. For the amount of time Elon spends talking about it, SpaceX spends surprisingly little time on the actual research that is needed for making an actual Martian colony self-sustainable.

Re: Starship Update [video]

#219

Post by nickpp »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #175
panick21_ wrote: post #33

The Raptor 2 engine is just an absurd. The original specs were already kind of insane. But Raptor 2 is an monster. They really pushed already significantly into a second generation design before first flight. Raptor 2 is not just a slight upgrade, its a huge upgrade. If it can actually launch multiple times a day without any refurbishment, it will simply totally break space travel as we have known it. This engine mak…

Whenever I read enthusiasm like this for space travel .. especially talk of Musks interplanetary species and stuff, I get a flashback to Stark by Ben Elton . Published in 1989, getting closer to true by the day. Also probably the funniest book I've ever read. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_(novel)

I prefer to think of The Expanse instead. It seems a much more likely future to me.

There are countless dystopic futures (they sell better) we already avoided so I prefer optimism.

Re: Starship Update [video]

#220

Post by czottmann »

traceelement wrote: post #191
ksec wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This engine makes everything else possible. I have seen lot of tweets ( from highly intelligent people and engineers ) suggesting Starship is not possible. Raptor 2 is not possible. But now it seems it really is coming. It is easy to fault him for robotaxi and FSD, which a lot of people do. But sometimes he really does the impossible.

Quoted post unavailable.

Annoying, isn't it. SpaceX, like all worthwhile and impressing endeavours in the past, is the work of a legion of people in front of and behind the curtain!
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