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Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

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Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#151

Post by Gareth321 »

nomendos wrote: post #139

Let me translate this into practical arguments depicting where this leads (how both dangerous and stupid it is). If this bill passes, imagine a world where: - all cloud files, activity, messages, regular over internet activity (provided by any legal company registered in US or wanting to operate in the US) etc shall be readable by the government - this would apply to ALL countries in the world - all companies will no…

It would destroy the US tech sector. In Europe, no company would be permitted to store any data on any servers operated by a U.S. company. They might go further and require the company to have no association with the U.S. counterpart, if this Bill is sufficiently broad, which I believe it is. In other words, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Dropbox, Apple, Amazon, etc. etc. would lose their entire European customer base.

Of course the wheels of the EU move slowly, and there aren't a lot of strong alternatives at present, so I don't expect this to cause a sudden crash. The decline will be slow but assured. I don't understand how the legal architects of this can be this naive. Or perhaps they just don't care.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#153

Post by [deleted] »

rolfea wrote: post #72

You can watch the meeting from this morning here: https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/meetings/02/03/2022/executi... The discussion on the EARN IT act starts around 1:42:00 Any mention of concerns over encryption are with a really incredulous, dismissive tone. I have a hard time understanding whether that's actual ignorance on the part of the Senators, or if it's some kind of theatrics that plays into the broader politi…

[deleted]

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#154

Post by Gareth321 »

alwillis wrote: post #115
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. (No sideloading is so great, Apple fanboys here say, no big deal, just do your research and buy another device. )

For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. Apple would fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment. With such a conservative Supreme Court, I doubt they would look favorably at restricting speech of a company. Besides, Apple’s App Store is available in many countries around the world; an American iPhone user could get restricted apps from i…

>Apple would fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment.

I'm not so sure anymore. Apple of yore is dead. They recently announced a plan to scan local files on iPhones against a government created list of hashes. Only after immense backlash did they agree to "delay" the implementation. This had no profit motive for Apple. As a company, the move served to seriously undermine decades worth of security good will. One can only surmise that they did so in preparation for upcoming legislation like this to ensure their compliance, and continued access to said markets. Apple doesn't care about fighting moral wars. They only care about market access and continued profits. If that means removing apps and scanning phones, I think they'll do it without much fuss.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#156

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #105
idontwantthis wrote: post #27

I contacted my representatives. It took 1 minute. Please do it too.

Like our opinions matter. I learned from net neutrality that my representatives will do whatever they want to do, without regard for the peoples wishes.

If enough people write in it can have an effect. It can provide political ammunition for those who are already supportive of your position.

It may sway representatives who haven't made up their minds and want to get relected.

It probably won't change the minds of those who are already fully committed to the other position.

Your one letter won't make much difference. Many letters can sway opinion to some extent.

I also prefer to participate in the process occasionally.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#157

Post by riedel »

gorgoiler wrote: post #149

Section 5: “[Use of end to end encryption] shall not serve as an independent basis for liability of a provider […]” but the fact that you did so can now be used against you in court. The spirit of this bill is to make WhatsApp liable from the moment they become aware of specific instances of child pornography being shared on their platform, and only then after they’ve been shown to be doing nothing to take it down. I…

I think the EFF does a very bad job at providing counterarguments to the "fact checking" done by the senators. Maybe someone could provide better more nuanced criticism if anyone tries to reach out for their reps. In Europe a similar situation is coming up and I see the fundamental criticism of some NGOs sometimes not helpful, because this might be just dismissed as radical.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#158

Post by mannerheim »

alwillis wrote: post #115
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. (No sideloading is so great, Apple fanboys here say, no big deal, just do your research and buy another device. )

For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. Apple would fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment. With such a conservative Supreme Court, I doubt they would look favorably at restricting speech of a company. Besides, Apple’s App Store is available in many countries around the world; an American iPhone user could get restricted apps from i…

> This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment.

The government would argue that they aren't banning speech here; the banned apps can be restored to the app store by complying with the law.

> Besides, Apple’s App Store is available in many countries around the world; an American iPhone user could get restricted apps from its App Stores in other countries.

Not if every other country passes laws along the same lines.

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#159

Post by alx__ »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #156
yoyohello13 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like our opinions matter. I learned from net neutrality that my representatives will do whatever they want to do, without regard for the peoples wishes.

If enough people write in it can have an effect. It can provide political ammunition for those who are already supportive of your position. It may sway representatives who haven't made up their minds and want to get relected. It probably won't change the minds of those who are already fully committed to the other position. Your one letter won't make much difference. Many letters can sway opinion to some extent. I als…

It depends. Some folks do weigh the responses

Some don't. Looking at you Nancy Pelosi & Dianne Feinstein

Re: Key senators have voted for the anti-encryption EARN IT act

#160

Post by boudin »

Gareth321 wrote: post #151
nomendos wrote: post #139

Let me translate this into practical arguments depicting where this leads (how both dangerous and stupid it is). If this bill passes, imagine a world where: - all cloud files, activity, messages, regular over internet activity (provided by any legal company registered in US or wanting to operate in the US) etc shall be readable by the government - this would apply to ALL countries in the world - all companies will no…

It would destroy the US tech sector. In Europe, no company would be permitted to store any data on any servers operated by a U.S. company. They might go further and require the company to have no association with the U.S. counterpart, if this Bill is sufficiently broad, which I believe it is. In other words, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Dropbox, Apple, Amazon, etc. etc. would lose their entire European customer base.…

I would expect companies that can do so to move most of their activities out of the US and silo their US operations.
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