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An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

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Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#211

Post by Godel_unicode »

BeefWellington wrote: post #184
madars wrote: post #181

Might be useful: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuarg , a third-party Android app, can force an AirTag to make a sound even if Apple hasn't determined that tag has been following you (the BLE characteristic is unauthenticated: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard/blob/main/app/src/mai... ) HN discussion: AirGuard: Protect yourself from being tracked by AirTags and Find My accessories (298 points, 150 comments) ht…

This works assuming the speaker hasn't been compromised by a would-be stalker.

There's already a thriving market in muted airtags, a quick ebay search will get you there.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#212

Post by olliej »

Syonyk wrote: post #55
olliej wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AirTags shipped with anti-abuse features on day one, no other product provides any anti-abuse features whatsoever. The speaker could be defeated, but the anti tracking stuff cannot be stopped without breaking the basic functionality. If you’re demanding that companies must go to great length to avoid abuse of their products why aren’t you demanding the same from tile? Why not the myriad gps trackers on Amazon? It’s n…

> It’s not unreasonable to demand that Amazon ensures every such tracker they sell has speakers and anti abuse features. I agree, however, this thread is about Apple's AirTag devices, and complaining about Amazon's incredibly vile sales practices seems at least somewhat off topic for it.

And Apple's device have vastly superior anti-abuse features than every other product, and clearly apple has not stopped fighting said abused.

What's happening now though is people are attacking apple because AirTags anti-abuse features work, and people have identified when they're being stalked.

We haven't heard stories like this about tile, not because it doesn't happen, but because the complete lack of any anti-abuse features mean that victims are unaware they're being tracked.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#213

Post by krinchan »

colinmhayes wrote: post #153
concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

Maybe you don't lose stuff as much as other people? My brother was always complaining about losing his wallet, his keys, anything you can think of. I got him a tile, but their product wasn't very accurate. Got him airtags and the problem is solved. Not only are air tags useful, but I'm sure that there are people who would be willing to switch to iOS solely to get access to airtags. That seems pretty valuable to apple…

They’re a lifesaver for me with unmedicated adult ADHD. I’ve been substantially more on-time to events, appointments, etc. since I put an air tag on my keys and wallet. Several of my friends have commented on it. Tile trackers were horribly inaccurate and either had non-replacable batteries or would eat a battery a month. Airtags have been lightyears better.

Perhaps removing them from the Find My network and only operating locally would be a better option, but I just can’t see them going back on it at this point.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#214

Post by nomel »

paxys wrote: post #113
jackson1442 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should all GPS trackers be banned then? The problem with AirTags is they're accessible; these problems have always existed with any kind of GPS tracking.

Serious question – which commercially available GPS tracker can be used for this purpose? I have been looking for one for years ( not for stalking, I promise) and absolutely nothing fits the bill. They are all large (impossible to slip into, say, a purse), expensive, have minimum $20/mo subscriptions (with credit card registration), require you to register a SIM card, and have a battery life measured in days. Now you…

I think one (more expensive) answer is to use the best tracking service that currently exists: Google Android OS. Buy a small android phone [1]. Put it in power save mode, to reduce power draw, and drop it in.

This would be much less alarming than some tracking device or an AirTag, especially if you put some innocent looking picture on the Home Screen, so it looks like some kid dropped their phone in their purse, on accident.

Reading this comment thread, I assume many here would agree that we should ban all small smartphones.

[1] https://www.androidauthority.com/best-small-android-phones-7...

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#215

Post by rootusrootus »

throw10920 wrote: post #34
throwntoday wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what extent is any hardware manufacturer responsible for malicious usage of their product in your opinion? Surely you don't believe that all bases can be covered no matter how simple the product prior to launch. I credit Apple for making a best effort at launch and continuing security and support for much longer than the industry standard in their products. But realistically there is no way to launch something fla…

I think that a key issue in this case isn't just that Apple made a device that could be used for tracking - after all, you could engineer or buy a different tracking device from a number of vendors - but that its feasibility was massively increased due to a unique Apple asset - its network of iDevices. That is, Apple released a product that was uniquely good at tracking people due to an Apple-specific asset . Slightl…

> its feasibility was massively increased

As was the risk of getting jail time if you use it to stalk someone. Something you don't really worry about with a generic GPS tracker. That handy, convenient AirTag will give the police your address.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#216

Post by sprite »

I recently had a car stolen and was able to recover it and police made an arrest because I had a Tile hidden in it. This wouldn’t be possible with AirTag notifications.

On an unrelated note if you have any FCA vehicle thieves have a programmer that plugs into OBD2 that will delete yours keys from the car and pair theirs in under 2 minutes so they can crank the car and drive off. It’s not even the relay amplifier attack that affects a lot of other cars.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#217

Post by dylan604 »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #150
concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

Trackers have been around for years . Tile came out in 2014, and Samsung has their own Galaxy tracker line for a while now. Neither have anti-stalking features of any kind to this day. If one was stuck on your car, you wouldn't get an alert or any info on who placed it there, be you an iPhone user or an Android user. And before that, there were GPS trackers which have bigger batteries and were more accurate (if a bit…

>Has a tracker costing too much ever stopped a stalker?

Can you pay for that subscription of a tracker with an anonymous payment? If someone was to find a tracker, and even having to go through court orders of whatever type, the subscriber could be found out. I think that would be the bigger deterrent for a thinking stalker than the price as that's the cost of doing business. (shivers from making stalking out to be a sane thing) Lot's of plausible deniability, "oops, i lost that sometime ago, and totally forgot to play dark pattern UI games to end my auto-pay subscription. totally wasn't me, we swears it."

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#218

Post by rainsford »

concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

I think a major part of the announcement you're skipping over is the clear statement that individual AirTags are linked to specific AppleIDs and Apple will cooperate with law enforcement to help identify the owners of AirTags used for criminal activity. If you're a wannabe stalker, the fact that Apple has made it clear they're just itching to point the cops in your direction if you misuse their technology seems like a fairly big disincentive when there are other tracking capabilities available. Even if you think your target isn't too likely to find the AirTag, it means you're taking an obvious risk if they do happen to find it.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#219

Post by rootusrootus »

bitexploder wrote: post #66
drdaeman wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the typical issue is that someone can maliciously track some other person specifically for years. Longevity of the tracker is an added benefit, not what makes it different. Honestly, in my personal opinion I feel that only thing that's really different is the company's notoriety. It's no fun to bash Tile (people just don't have any beef with them), but kinda fun when it's Apple. And that they've actuall…

That was kind of my point. People can buy these GPS trackers for the same price and have a stealthy surreptitious tracker. What’s new is Apple made so omg, better freak out and write eleventy-one angsty articles about them. In this case I can’t even muster an eyeroll at how silly it is.

If I were actually interested in tracking someone for nefarious reasons, I absolutely would not use an AirTag. I mean, it has a serial number that will lead the police right back to me. I'd use something that doesn't have my name on it.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#220

Post by rootusrootus »

nomel wrote: post #194
ungoogled wrote: post #7

I'm sure they're frustrated that people keep using AirTags as tracking devices rather than local thing-finders, but I think there are good reasons for that. Local trackers have been around for a long time. I had a "TV remote finder" years ago that you'd stick to a TV remote (or keys), and it would beep when activated by a second device. More recently, Tiles work pretty well, assuming you don't need direction finding.…

I have an AirTag in my car. I can always find my parking spot. I use this more often than to find my keys.

That's a creative use I hadn't thought of before. I guess it probably wouldn't help me since I use CarPlay, which causes the phone to save the parking location automatically, but I can definitely see a use case there.
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