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FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

arstechnica.com

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Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#21

Post by coderdude »

bandushrew wrote: post #20
coderdude wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't blindly following the law. So someone hacks your site and we praise the hacker and condemn you? Someone breaks the lock to your front door and we applaud the burgler and make fun of your lock? Get real. I'm sick of this attitude. Just because I understand right from wrong doesn't make me some kind of lackey for the law dogs. People with your attitude convey the wrong message. You don't like Sony, I get it.…

If I had taken the possessions of thousands of people, and promised to keep them safe in my house, and then a burglar broke in and stole everything. I deserve to be condemned. sure, the burglar should be punished for the simple crime of theft that he committed. but I took the possessions of thousands of people and failed to make them secure, despite promising to do so. Especially if I took all those possessions and t…

That is a terrible analogy. It's as if you were given peoples' posessions but you had someone working around the clock to find a way into your home to deface you. You're condemning Sony's engineers for missing something, even if it was a "simple" something. This LulzSec guy, however, did act in malice. He's the one who leaked information, after all.

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#22

Post by sophacles »

coderdude wrote: post #17
wnight wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quit it with this codger pissing his diaper routine. I know blindly following the law is seeming more important as you get old but the "crime" consisted of sending malformed data and it caused games to go offline. Get over it. It's time to require Sony to run their business properly instead of investigating children as if they were mobsters. I swear, some people are retarded.

This isn't blindly following the law. So someone hacks your site and we praise the hacker and condemn you? Someone breaks the lock to your front door and we applaud the burgler and make fun of your lock? Get real. I'm sick of this attitude. Just because I understand right from wrong doesn't make me some kind of lackey for the law dogs. People with your attitude convey the wrong message. You don't like Sony, I get it.…

Let's play the "more appropriate analogy" game:

Say you take your valuables to a bank to put in a safe deposit box. They position themselves as a leader in safe deposit box technology. Then one night a burglar notices that the boxes are protected simply by a piece of cardboard panted to look like a real door, and there are no other security systems. Further the locks on the boxes can be opened by merely tapping them in the right place with a screwdriver. He takes your stuff in the heist.

Are you pissed at the burgler? Of course.

Are you pissed ath the bank? You should be ...

But by your logic, we should ignore the facts regarding the bank's complete lack of proper safe deposit box handling and security. Obviously they must have tried real hard, and their statements about good security are no match for the evil burglar.

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#24

Post by coderdude »

sophacles wrote: post #22
coderdude wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't blindly following the law. So someone hacks your site and we praise the hacker and condemn you? Someone breaks the lock to your front door and we applaud the burgler and make fun of your lock? Get real. I'm sick of this attitude. Just because I understand right from wrong doesn't make me some kind of lackey for the law dogs. People with your attitude convey the wrong message. You don't like Sony, I get it.…

Let's play the "more appropriate analogy" game: Say you take your valuables to a bank to put in a safe deposit box. They position themselves as a leader in safe deposit box technology. Then one night a burglar notices that the boxes are protected simply by a piece of cardboard panted to look like a real door, and there are no other security systems. Further the locks on the boxes can be opened by merely tapping them…

That was not my logic at all.

Just because Sony should be held to higher standards and just because they should be in trouble maybe for having a security flaw (like they're the only ones? It's just fashionable to hate Sony's divisions), this doesn't discount my very first point that you shouldn't downplay the fact that this person committed a crime. A very real crime that you wouldn't be defending if you liked Sony instead of disliked them.

My problem is we go to hold criminals accountable for real life crimes that you wouldn't want committed against yourself and then you get these online people whining that they are heroes somehow. It's ridiculous.

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#25

Post by n09n »

coderdude wrote: post #19
sophacles wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the phrase "throw the book at him" and the idea of justice are not identical right? "Throwing the book" is about finding and (over)zealously prosecuting (with much fanfare) for every possible offense, no matter how loosely associated to the actions that offense may be. Justice is about fairly metting out punishment and consequences for actions. The very act of throwing the book at one person for a wrong and…

I highly doubt he breathed as much into "throw the book at him" as you have to defend your position. My name-calling is not absurd. What is absurd is your opinion on this matter. You're part of a vocal minority that doesn't care if someone commits a crime if it satisfies your personal anti-corporate agenda.

I think a large part of their supporters don't care if someone commits a crime if it is done in a sufficiently shameless and entertaining way. Just look at Sabu's tweet.

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#26

Post by sophacles »

coderdude wrote: post #19
sophacles wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the phrase "throw the book at him" and the idea of justice are not identical right? "Throwing the book" is about finding and (over)zealously prosecuting (with much fanfare) for every possible offense, no matter how loosely associated to the actions that offense may be. Justice is about fairly metting out punishment and consequences for actions. The very act of throwing the book at one person for a wrong and…

I highly doubt he breathed as much into "throw the book at him" as you have to defend your position. My name-calling is not absurd. What is absurd is your opinion on this matter. You're part of a vocal minority that doesn't care if someone commits a crime if it satisfies your personal anti-corporate agenda.

I very clearly stated I care that a crime has been committed. I don't have an anti-corporate agenda. I have an agenda, but it is simply that we take care to ensure that:

1. the punishment fits the crime, not that we do our worst to everyone who breaks a law ever - this is unreasonable.

2. that in our attempts to find justice in one case, we don't ignore a hundred others because our bloodlust.

3. that we assess the responsibilities of companies to their customers and recognize liability and that large coffers are tools which can be used to unbalance the system.

I apologize that I have offended you with my long writing about my position on this, I don't know any one sentence platitudes or slogans on which to hang my position. You see, I have thought about it a lot, and none of the simple statements seemed to cover my thoughts fully nor appropriately.

Yes, your name calling is absurd - it won't change my mind and doesn't really even offend me, just slightly annoys me because it doesn't add to the conversation. It obviously hasn't made you feel any better, you still seem pretty angry.

I am actually curious why you think my postion is absurd. Would you mind telling me, using adult language and responding to the opinions I actually wrote about, not the ones you are claiming (those contradict statements I have made so I am not sure how you got them).

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#27

Post by coderdude »

sophacles wrote: post #26
coderdude wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt he breathed as much into "throw the book at him" as you have to defend your position. My name-calling is not absurd. What is absurd is your opinion on this matter. You're part of a vocal minority that doesn't care if someone commits a crime if it satisfies your personal anti-corporate agenda.

I very clearly stated I care that a crime has been committed. I don't have an anti-corporate agenda. I have an agenda, but it is simply that we take care to ensure that: 1. the punishment fits the crime, not that we do our worst to everyone who breaks a law ever - this is unreasonable. 2. that in our attempts to find justice in one case, we don't ignore a hundred others because our bloodlust. 3. that we assess the re…

I do not believe that your original statement did anything to convey what you've just said. I do not find this reponse unreasonable. I jumped the gun calling you retarded -- I assumed you were the usual tyoe that defends anonymous/lulzsec. They don't care about the crime, they don't see why it's a crime, etc. That was my impression. I do get angry in these discussions. These people are annoying. The others in this thread I've responded to are like this but at least you acknowledge that this person should be punished.

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#28

Post by sophacles »

coderdude wrote: post #24
sophacles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's play the "more appropriate analogy" game: Say you take your valuables to a bank to put in a safe deposit box. They position themselves as a leader in safe deposit box technology. Then one night a burglar notices that the boxes are protected simply by a piece of cardboard panted to look like a real door, and there are no other security systems. Further the locks on the boxes can be opened by merely tapping them…

That was not my logic at all. Just because Sony should be held to higher standards and just because they should be in trouble maybe for having a security flaw (like they're the only ones? It's just fashionable to hate Sony's divisions), this doesn't discount my very first point that you shouldn't downplay the fact that this person committed a crime. A very real crime that you wouldn't be defending if you liked Sony i…

I never once declared there wasn't a crime. Nor did defend it. I didn't even declare it should be downplayed. I said it should not be overhyped. There is a difference. Please stop putting words in my mouth (erm.. fingers).

You know what I don't want?: to be hacked or robbed. I think it is fine that we hold people accountable for it and punish their actions (provided it is appropriate for the crime).

You know what else I don't want?: I don't want my supposedly secured info made available to the first guy with an sql-injection. I think the asshats who let this hacking-101 trick past should also be accountable and punished.

It's kind of funny: you seem to think that Sony not be the only people with security flaws is somehow mitigating, but if someone said "Recursion isn't the only hacker your know" you would probably jump down their throat. I think that responsibility should go two ways and you are getting all sorts of worked up over it.

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#29

Post by bandushrew »

coderdude wrote: post #21
bandushrew wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had taken the possessions of thousands of people, and promised to keep them safe in my house, and then a burglar broke in and stole everything. I deserve to be condemned. sure, the burglar should be punished for the simple crime of theft that he committed. but I took the possessions of thousands of people and failed to make them secure, despite promising to do so. Especially if I took all those possessions and t…

That is a terrible analogy. It's as if you were given peoples' posessions but you had someone working around the clock to find a way into your home to deface you. You're condemning Sony's engineers for missing something, even if it was a "simple" something. This LulzSec guy, however, did act in malice. He's the one who leaked information, after all.

it is a terrible analogy, I agree. I didn't choose it.

anyway, lets keep beating on it.

If I were to agree to keep the possessions of thousands of people safe under my roof, I would expect to have someone working around the clock to find a way into my home.

I am not condemning Sony's engineers at all, I dont know any of them, but even so it is my absolute belief that they knew damn well how broken the system was, and that they told their management repeatedly that it needed to be fixed or customer data could be at risk.

I am condemning Sony, if they agree to take my possessions and to keep them secure, they had better damn well expect to have a continuous stream of people deliberately attempting to break in.

Re: FBI arrests LulzSec member "recursion" for Sony Pictures hack

#30

Post by Steko »

guelo wrote: post #8

It would be great if they would go to trial so that maybe we could find out how the FBI tracked them down. My suspicion is that it's all an abuse of spying laws intended for terrorism. Unfortunately these guys will probably all plead.

http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/201138/7643/Proxy-l...

"According to HideMyAss.com, “…services such as ours do not exist to hide people from illegal activity. We will cooperate with law enforcement agencies if it has become evident that your account has been used for illegal activities.”

The service stores logs for 30-days when it comes to Website proxy services, and they store the connecting IP address, as well as time stamps for those using the VPN offerings."

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