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TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

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Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#331

Post by wolverine876 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #135
yibg wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d rather have a generally applicable law in place. If we think massive data collection shouldn’t be allowed then ban that.

It feels like debate is a generation behind practice here. The greatest danger isn't from data collection, but from algorithmic recommendation. The data collection horse is out of the barn, has legitimate uses, and is an incredibly thorny issue to legislate appropriately. And will be adjusted for the next 20+ years. What needs to be done now is to say that (1) at a certain user count ("too big to democratically ignor…

> The data collection horse is out of the barn

That metaphor means that there is no stopping it, you can't get the horse back in the barn. How is data collection like that? Why can't we make a law stopping it? The EU limits data collection. Apple restricted it. Nobody told them we couldn't put the horse back in the barn.

A good thing about 'software eating the world' is that it's not like saying, 'train rail gauge should be 1 meter wider', which would take incredible capital and labor. The software can be quickly and easily changed.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#332

Post by wolverine876 »

beardedetim wrote: post #220
ethbr0 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the 84-year-old Sen. Hatch (who retired in 2019) asked a dumb question doesn't mean there aren't smart people in government. ( Edit : Although I might have been misreading your ad model sentence as the above) If explainability is a problem (e.g. "We don't know why our algorithm recommends higher-interest rate loan products to African Americans"), then that's a rabbit hole that needs to have funding put t…

> doesn't mean there aren't smart people in government. agreed and I was flippant to make a point. I did not mean to say there aren't smart people in government. But I would venture to say that people who understand ML/AI are _not_ working in the government. Or put more correctly, the _odds_ of a person working in government being up to date on how LSTM works today is such a low number, that I would be fair to say it…

Many government agencies use AI/ML heavily. It's possible that the US Dept of Defense spends more on AI than any other institution in the world.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#333

Post by ipaddr »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #325
dumb1224 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> watch every conversation happening in real time Eh.... are you sure? A lot of my childhood friends are now working in various ares of what you might consider 'authoritative post' or the infamous 有关部门 but I think it's still a bit too divorced from reality. Censorship and blatant blockage for sure but millions spying on billions in real time? I don't think that's how they work.

Yes, parent’s assertion is fairly preposterous. There is no way one could conduct surveillance on that scale in a non automated fashion. There are too many resources required.

It's a combo of both with automatic flags and manual live reviews.

Reporters without borders reports 2 million employed in government censorship in 2013. https://rsf.org/en/news/chinas-cyber-censorship-figures

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#334

Post by dumb1224 »

Retric wrote: post #322
friedman23 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well then I guess there is nothing left to say, as there is absolutely nothing that can be falsified in your beliefs, only the single-minded faith in an absolute national enemy. Got it, so since you couldn't argue against my statements with reason you are now attacking my character. > makes me absolutely ashamed to be a westerner of any sorts Absolutely nobody that is from the west calls themselves a westerner what…

There is also serious mistrust of the Chinese government by the citizens of China. They just rarely communicate it as there is real risks to doing so. It feels so bizarre to have someone convey seething hate for the government in private while seemingly being supportive in public. What is less obvious is how brittle it makes the country, it could literally dissolve into anarchy tomorrow or last for hundreds of years.

well not so uncommon, there are plenty of posts everywhere before it's taken down. If you use wechat the amount of 'read before deletion' are just a major category of gossips. I sometimes wonder do people outside of China really know the chinese 'domestic' circle well or am I so out of touch now? Also imho people don't tend to go 'against' the highest level government since it's very abstract. It's the everyday stuff that people care, which means local authorities that almost never get involved in any internationally focused affairs.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#335

Post by dumb1224 »

ipaddr wrote: post #333
wbsss4412 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, parent’s assertion is fairly preposterous. There is no way one could conduct surveillance on that scale in a non automated fashion. There are too many resources required.

It's a combo of both with automatic flags and manual live reviews. Reporters without borders reports 2 million employed in government censorship in 2013. https://rsf.org/en/news/chinas-cyber-censorship-figures

It depends on how you define employed for censorship roles. On Douyin there are a lot of memes about passing censorship as a writer/reporter, jokes like 'night is dark' but it's actually 'night club'. Plenty of turks are just mechanically checking according to a theme. 'No brainer' as they call it. What's considered lighthearted there is probably horrifying sounding here.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#336

Post by wbsss4412 »

ipaddr wrote: post #333
wbsss4412 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, parent’s assertion is fairly preposterous. There is no way one could conduct surveillance on that scale in a non automated fashion. There are too many resources required.

It's a combo of both with automatic flags and manual live reviews. Reporters without borders reports 2 million employed in government censorship in 2013. https://rsf.org/en/news/chinas-cyber-censorship-figures

The assertion was:

> watch every conversation happening in real time.

Even with 2 million people, you can’t follow even a fraction of the conversations of 1000x the population without automation doing most of the heavy lifting.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#337

Post by unityByFreedom »

robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

> It's sad that a massively scaled invasion of privacy can only be countered by more surveillance.

Reporting like this is also a refutation of their service.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#339

Post by kornhole »

nicce wrote: post #299
kornhole wrote: post #296

Articles such as these frame the debate around comparing different corporate and government influenced social media and never mention free social media as an alternative. https://fediverse.party/

Very few services are actually totally free or with neutral purpose. On larger scale, it is really hard.

Yes they cost me electricity, bandwidth, and time to administer. They are free of advertising, data tracking, and influence of corporations or governments. My friends who use the ones I host can donate money, but I have never asked them.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#340

Post by Diesel555 »

cvlasdkv wrote: post #259
friedman23 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

Quoted post unavailable.

There are many books published on the topic that layout the evidence. A discussion here cannot begin to explain the depth of the problem, the reasons why our foreign policy has failed, and the evidence that exists. A superficial discussion almost does the topic a disservice and comes off as xenophobic. If you are truly interested in the topic I recommend "The World According to China" by Economy published 2022. I have 8 other book recommendations to cover the breadth of the field and the opinions if you care.

Most of the authors of the books express their love for the Chinese people. Most of them lived there at one point, and separate that view from their issues with the CCP and government. If you do due diligence in the area you may change your viewpoint. Maybe not. No-one on this thread is going to convince you in a few paragraphs to change your mind on a subject this charged and complex.

A more fun book, less academic, was published last year by Desmond Shum detailing his rise to becoming a billionaire as a China native and Hong Kong resident. He wrote the book after his billionaire ex-wife was abducted. She was not heard of for four years. She called him the day before he was to publish the book asking him not to.

> https://www.npr.org/2021/09/06/1034556269/red-roulette-revea...

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