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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#361

Post by zozbot234 »

whatshisface wrote: post #321
UncleMeat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually true? This feels a bit like a post-facto generalization from specific situations. "I was a nerd and didn't go on dates. Being a nerd got me into software and now I make a lot of money. Therefore people who are on the path to high earning are not getting dates." My experience has been that a lot of the stereotypical jocks ended up in finance and are doing quite well and that software is no longer domi…

The meme is not about income or physical fitness, it's about psychological aggressiveness. Highly un-aggressive men are considered emotionally unattractive and don't get dates because, for one thing, they're afraid to ask, but they're nice and dependable and will take care of you forever. Highly aggressive men come across as dynamic and interesting, and turn out to have five mistresses in three states and a warrant o…

As a guy, you can handily subvert this dynamic by learning to act assertive in a way that implicitly appeals to others' sensation seeking, without being so aggressive that you end up being off-putting to others or even scaring them away.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#362

Post by brailsafe »

orange_joe wrote: post #296
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the obesity problem is linked to the fact that many people have to work 60 hours a week to survive and don't have the time/energy to get in shape. Capitalism has taken a large swath of people out of the dating game just due to working to survive.

People work 10% fewer hours now than in the 1960s, but the obesity rate has gone up from 13% in that time period to 36%. The obesity crisis is IMO more related to what we eat, and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG

This may be true, but people are probably commuting for vastly more time per day to their suburban wasteland house that can only be driven to, than fewer minutes worked would compensate for, and the money doesn't go as far—possibly because they felt spending $60k on a dumb car, and 9 hours a week in it, was more sensible than spending 2 hours a week in a physical hobby.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article...

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#363

Post by diordiderot »

uoaei wrote: post #244
ytwombly wrote: post #150

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

> what explains the relative stability in post-Christian Europe? Politics is the new religion insofar as it develops moral frameworks and makes people abide by them while convincing them they are making the "rational" choice. This is informed substantially by Enlightenment-era philosophies and is the major component in modern consent manufacturing. "Rational" in scare quotes because good luck converting questions of…

Well there's no such thing as 'morality', there's mostly power and sometimes law. The golden rule is a pretty easy starting point for determining which rules are fair.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#364

Post by nuclearnice3 »

rayiner wrote: post #263
kevinob11 wrote: post #82

I'm a white straight male, grew up middle class near Seattle. I'm now in my mid-30s and have 3 kids. Semi-recently I had an (maybe my first?) experience where I wasn't the favored party in a situation. My kids have made focus more difficult, and I work in an industry (tech consulting) where focus is a big deal, and the idea that I'm not the perfect person for the job was a foreign feeling. I no longer felt "I was mad…

Respectfully, this is kind of a privileged take, both economic and intellectual. For the majority of men who aren’t going to college, they’ve spent a lot longer than a couple of years feeling like they’re not “the favored party” in a situation.

The poster knows that.

* "Semi-recently I had an (maybe my first?) experience where I wasn't the favored party in a situation."

* "almost everyone else has dealt with similar circumstances much more often than I have."

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#365

Post by AussieWog93 »

0xy wrote: post #242
fiftyfifty wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've coached high school sports teams, both boys and girls, for the last two decades. I've seen some of these trends unfold over the years with my student athletes. My observation is girls are just more motivated than boys, even for something fun like sports practices and workouts, girls in general will show up more consistently than boys. The teachers I've spoken to at the school where I coach have confirmed the sam…

Schools are structured to benefit girls, and the deck is absolutely stacked against boys. The vast majority of teachers are female, and they mark boys worse for equivalent work. [1] Boys generally require more physical activity than girls, yet the majority of school is "sit down and stare at this whiteboard". Of course they're less motivated, it's quite literally a rigged game. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/education-…

I think you're oversimplifying what is a massive systemic issue into two points that, while true, might not contribute as large of an impact as you're assuming.

Also, just in defence of female teachers, I don't think it matters so much that they're women, but that they understand that boys will be boys. Anti-male teachers were, at least in the experience of myself and a friend who went to a different school (we discussed this once), definitely present but firmly in the minority.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#366

Post by recuter »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #327
recuter wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please please please try to find good outgoing non-techy roommates that you can tolerate while you are at this age. Even better if they are good with girls. Do not live alone just because you can afford to do so. Try to spend as little as possible of your salary and regardless of the market buy a house/apartment as soon as you can. Live in the smallest room. There are plenty of excellent places in the world where you…

Appreciate the advice. It is a bit harder than it sounds though. Building a friend circle from scratch is harder than any technical challenge I've faced before. I overcame my social anxiousness for the most part but that doesn't mean I can cold approach people and build a conversation up to a friendship. Anyway, HN is hardly the place for this kind of topic but thanks again. I'm giving it my best but it's not a piece…

Hence the roommates.

HN is certainly the place for this kind of topic, it is one of the most important topics discussed here. I've been on this site for over a decade and was exactly in your shoes when I found it.

Tech crap comes and goes and is repetitive. You'll sponge it all up sooner or later anyway.

It is absolutely not a piece of cake, I know buddy. It requires a massive investment on your part and I am flailing around to really drive home the fact that it is worth literally ALL THE EFFORT YOU CAN MUSTER. Guaranteed.

I sincerely hope you succeed in making the very necessary changes you know deep down you have to make. Best of luck!

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#367

Post by azhu »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #334

I don't see how we'll be able to make people care about this issue at the current zenith of The Future Is Female zeitgeist in the West. Given the current cultural and moral fashions, I can't think of many things that would be harder to empathize with than the laments of straight working-age men. There are so many more groups that are higher on the oppression totem pole that there's no way anybody will ever make it fa…

I feel you bro. I've felt that same way and I have empathy. You have solid points and a valid perspective. You could also really use an attitude adjustment.

We're here as a society because of mishandled social responsibility. Women have only started to take up their own personal care because they can't rely on established conventions any more.

We as individuals likely have not done much, if anything, to contribute to this social circumstance. Just like women as individuals have not done much, if anything, to contribute to it. It is none of our faults. Yet they are taking personal responsibility for their wellbeing in this situation anyways. They are "manning up".

Men on the other hand... are we just sitting around crying with our thumbs up our asses? Yes. Yes we are. That shit is weak. That perspective on the situation is what's hard to empathize with, not the situation itself. Change your attitude, take personal responsibility, and bask as love and empathy showers onto you.

We can do better than looking to others to solve our problems for us. It just takes seeing an example of how. They are in short order, but they exist if you dig hard enough. I encourage any men who resonate with this to dig deeper. There is sweet sweet fruit to be had if you do. And tons of pussy.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#368

Post by quesera »

jeffbee wrote: post #79
ramesh31 wrote: post #27

Men's comparative advantage, throughout human history, has always been their physical strength. It was the one thing a man could count on to provide value to society. That is no longer the case in our modern economy. You need intelligence, emotional intellect, and analytical skills. All of which men and women are on an equal footing at. So when you remove the ability to generate a viable income through physical labor…

Males have biological advantages in visual-spatial thinking. "Rotators vs. wordcels" is not just a weird meme.

Yikes. I had to look it up.

So the Internet intelligentsia have:

  - Re-discovered that hard and soft sciences (or, gasp, the liberal arts) attract different people
  - Declared their preferences (and themselves) superior
  - Invented a disparaging name for the inferior class
I feel like I've seen this movie before. It does not end well.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#369

Post by bradlys »

orange_joe wrote: post #296
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the obesity problem is linked to the fact that many people have to work 60 hours a week to survive and don't have the time/energy to get in shape. Capitalism has taken a large swath of people out of the dating game just due to working to survive.

People work 10% fewer hours now than in the 1960s, but the obesity rate has gone up from 13% in that time period to 36%. The obesity crisis is IMO more related to what we eat, and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG

People worked different jobs back then and did different things for recreation. Food was also different and so were the wages and cost of living.

Plz don’t trivialize it.

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