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TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

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Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#281

Post by wbsss4412 »

friedman23 wrote: post #234
bduerst wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the whole, "TikTok spies for China" meme also politically motivated, per the last Republican president? I don't doubt that Bytedance shares Chinese TouTiao user data with the Chinese government, akin to how Apple does it with iCloud, but Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data. Even when there was an executive order to ban TikTok for being a national security th…

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

Post Snowden leaks, one could pretty much say the same about any American tech giant.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#282

Post by friedman23 »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #279
friedman23 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

People are talking about the other parts pretty well, but the idea of a "propaganda arm" seems a little funny to me. What is the propaganda they want to push? To what end?

> What is the propaganda they want to push? To what end?

Propaganda is not just about "pushing" a message but also about smothering discussion. In fact, pushing a message via something like Tiktok is ham fisted, what the Chinese government can do instead is stifle any discussion related to topics that they consider "dangerous". For example, shadow banning any tiktok videos related to the Uighur genocide.

They can blame any manipulation on some ranking algorithm.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#283

Post by matheusmoreira »

robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

> China is not a good faith operator.

Well, neither is the USA and its NSA and its Five Eyes and all these actors who spy on pretty much everything and everyone. American companies are either complicit or blissfully ignorant. They violate the constitutional rights of their own citizens, principles their own country was literally founded upon, so there's no telling what they'd do to a foreigner. People are so afraid of them when they talk security they just assume you won't be taking them on.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#284

Post by sayhar »

ncpa-cpl wrote: post #110
Etheryte wrote: post #36

One thing that I found very interesting when I looked into what TikTok does: it's scary good at aggregating data about you. I live in a foreign country, my phone's network is behind a VPN to a different foreign country and I gave the app no extra permissions, yet somehow I still got recommended content from the country where I was born. Since it's a small country there's no way that's a coincidence. I'm both intrigue…

I think they use the SIM card country ID and also the ad audience categories to suggest content. For example swapping the SIM card with a fresh installation of TikTok shows different "local" videos. Even if the public IP address is unchanged like when using WiFi instead of Data. I've also think they use ad categories to suggest videos. Using a fresh TikTok installation and then spending some time navigating a subredd…

How could they tell you were on that subreddit? Presumably you were doing it from a separate browser on the phone -- can they really snoop on behavior in completely separate apps?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#285

Post by beepbooptheory »

friedman23 wrote: post #282
beepbooptheory wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are talking about the other parts pretty well, but the idea of a "propaganda arm" seems a little funny to me. What is the propaganda they want to push? To what end?

> What is the propaganda they want to push? To what end? Propaganda is not just about "pushing" a message but also about smothering discussion. In fact, pushing a message via something like Tiktok is ham fisted, what the Chinese government can do instead is stifle any discussion related to topics that they consider "dangerous". For example, shadow banning any tiktok videos related to the Uighur genocide. They can bla…

But then isn't this circular? They create the app to harvest the data to help them stifle the conversation they have made possible by creating the app in the first place!

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#286

Post by alternatetwo »

Steltek wrote: post #249
catawar2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the exact opposite experience. I also live in a foreign country (The Netherlands) and even after explicitly watching content from my native country I still only got videos in Dutch (should mention that I don't even speak Dutch).

Totally off topic but how are you received being a resident in a country and not being able to speak the language? Not that I'm looking to emigrate but damn if your country isn't appealing to the cargo-bike riding cyclist in me.

Basically everybody in the big cities there speaks English on a high level. Same as Copenhagen, Denmark for example.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#287

Post by dTal »

ethbr0 wrote: post #135
yibg wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d rather have a generally applicable law in place. If we think massive data collection shouldn’t be allowed then ban that.

It feels like debate is a generation behind practice here. The greatest danger isn't from data collection, but from algorithmic recommendation. The data collection horse is out of the barn, has legitimate uses, and is an incredibly thorny issue to legislate appropriately. And will be adjusted for the next 20+ years. What needs to be done now is to say that (1) at a certain user count ("too big to democratically ignor…

You're absolutely right, but I don't think you go far enough. If a company is too large to ignore - if they insinuate themselves into "infrastructure" roles - then we need to treat them like government. They need to be subject to FOI requests. They need to justify that their work is in the public interest. They must not be permitted to "lobby" (i.e. bribe officials).

I can't see exactly how we do all this, but the root cause of many a social ill is that corporations are taking over social roles from government. This must be arrested, somehow, or we'll sleepwalk into the dystopian future of every damn 70s scifi film.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#288

Post by wbsss4412 »

saas_sam wrote: post #41
netcan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> China is not a good faith operator. Who is? I don't mean to be trite or contrary, but TikTok is coming into an environment where norms are pretty damned shady. Google as you and the article say, also consume user data quite unethically. FB likewise surveil us for their advertising businesses. They both also happen to host and control a good chunk of political and politically adjacent content within that framework.…

Every tech company executive in the USA is not required to operate as an agent for one political party by threat of being disappeared. Our entire internet is not locked down to prevent political dissidents from sharing their views. Our government doesn't pay to flood our social media networks with astroturfing to create the illusion of popular support for its policies. These things add a more serious tone to the conv…

> Our government doesn't pay to flood our social media networks with astroturfing to create the illusion of popular support for its policies.

How would we know if that was or was not happening, either here or, more aptly (for the analogy to be accurate), abroad?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#289

Post by TheMightyLlama »

I think one of the things we don’t appreciate (perhaps most of the people on HN do) is that many of these platforms are not, as billed, social networks. They are, in fact, data collecting applications with a user facing, attention acquisition mechanism in the form of a fun little app. They are addictive for a reason. To get data off you.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#290

Post by wbsss4412 »

ketzo wrote: post #150
Ekaros wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but they intelligence agencies do the same stuff. And private hidden funders of politicians do the astroturfing... I don't really see much difference if it done by government or people who pay the politicians running the government.

I think it's hugely disingenuous, to the point of bad faith, to pretend there's not a massive difference between the internet in the U.S. and in China.

There’s a massive difference in the internet itself, but the topic of discussion here is data collection, which isn’t really a massive difference.
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