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IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#171

Post by tzs »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #166
tzs wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even simpler yet would be to go to a flat tax with an extremely high standard deduction (e.g. ~$50k with ~10% after that). That's not a flat tax. That is a progressive tax with two brackets. Once you have accepted that progressive taxes are acceptable, it is hard to see why two brackets is better than three, or 4, or even dozens. One might argue that two brackets is simpler than say 10 brackets, but that is a very…

> Once you have accepted that progressive taxes are acceptable. . .nobody can argue with a straight face that a 10 line table is too complicated. First, I don't think anyone should pay taxes on their labor. And just because my labor makes more shouldn't mean I pay a higher percentage; so, no, I don't agree with the concept of progressive taxation on labor. Regardless, that's what we have. Anyway, 10% after $50,000 is…

> With a 6-12 tax brackets with crazy amount of deductions, I need to [list of 5 steps]

None of your steps are made more complicated by more brackets or less complicated by fewer brackets. You determine your taxable income (the complicated part), then lookup that taxable income in the tax tables (simple).

If the taxable income is low enough, there is a table with a large number of entries that each cover a small enough range that you don't even have to do any computation. You just find the line that covers your taxable income and the table tells you the tax.

If your income is too high for that table you have to use a smaller table with entries that cover larger ranges. That table currently has 4 entries. You find the row whose range includes your taxable income, and calculating your tax involves a multiplication and a subtraction--which is just as much work as calculating your tax under your proposed two bracket system for people whose income is high enough to be in the second bracket.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#172

Post by fishywang »

mshroyer wrote: post #83
fishywang wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used login.gov for my global entry application and I'm actually impressed. The only complaints I have with it are: 1. It doesn't make it obvious on how to add additional u2f keys (you have to go to login.gov explicitly to do that) 2. I still can't find a way to remove u2f keys But then when I used id.me with CA DMV I'm also impressed by it (granted CA DMV does not require any crazy biometric stuff there like I…

> I still can't find a way to remove u2f keys When I go to login.gov and click on "Your authentication methods", each of my security keys is listed with a "Remove key" link next to it...

Oh you are right. I didn't realize that "You authentication methods" is clickable as the UI makes it look like just a header to me.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#173

Post by KptMarchewa »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #166
tzs wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even simpler yet would be to go to a flat tax with an extremely high standard deduction (e.g. ~$50k with ~10% after that). That's not a flat tax. That is a progressive tax with two brackets. Once you have accepted that progressive taxes are acceptable, it is hard to see why two brackets is better than three, or 4, or even dozens. One might argue that two brackets is simpler than say 10 brackets, but that is a very…

> Once you have accepted that progressive taxes are acceptable. . .nobody can argue with a straight face that a 10 line table is too complicated. First, I don't think anyone should pay taxes on their labor. And just because my labor makes more shouldn't mean I pay a higher percentage; so, no, I don't agree with the concept of progressive taxation on labor. Regardless, that's what we have. Anyway, 10% after $50,000 is…

>First, I don't think anyone should pay taxes on their labor.

This is the part where I start yawning

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#174

Post by bzbarsky »

mikestew wrote: post #157
bzbarsky wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The IRS knows what you owe and could just tell you if they wanted to. This is true often, but not always. Examples just off the top of my head: * Had large medical bills compared to your AGI? How does the IRS know that? * Paid for college tuition? How does the IRS know that? * Deducting state sales taxes? How does the IRS know what those were for you? * Paid for daycare? How does the IRS know how much? I'm sure I c…

Itemize if you feel deductions will exceed the standard deduction, leave the rest of us alone to agree/disagree with the amount on the postcard the IRS sent and mail our checks. Now that our paid mortgage interest is low enough to not matter, I can’t remember the last year that the IRS couldn’t have just send us a postcard with the amount they think we owe, and we would have paid probably exactly that amount. And we…

First of all, just to repeat: I am very much in favor of the IRS doing as much as it can on its end and then prompting for info it does not have but thinks should be relevant.

That said, neither daycare nor college tuition are itemized deductions. You can take the standard deduction and get credits/deductions for those at the same time.

Or the EITC: That one depends on who lived with you during the year, which the IRS also does not know. But it could ask that one question and then compute it for you...

Handling of stock transactions is the _easy_ case here, assuming the brokerages correctly track basis, because they already report all the relevant info to the IRS.

> I’m willing to wager that for the vast majority of U. S. residents for the vast majority of their lives, their deductions will not exceed the standard deduction.

That is a very sure bet, but not that relevant to whether the IRS can compute one's taxes because our tax code as currently structured has a bunch of credits and deductions that are not part of Schedule A that matter to quite a number of people.

To put numbers to this, per https://www.eitc.irs.gov/eitc-central/statistics-for-tax-ret... in 2020 25 million tax returns had EITC. Per https://www.irs.gov/statistics/returns-filed-taxes-collected... in that same year there were about 150 million total "individual, estate, and trust" tax returns. So at least 1/6 of individual tax returns (more to the extent that trusts exist) could not have been correctly done with the information the IRS has.

And as I said, the vast majority of people who paid for child care would need to correct whatever number the IRS came up with for that.

Now I agree there are lots of people (healthy retirees, young college grads with no kids) who probably _could_ have their taxes done by the IRS entirely. And I'm all in favor of that happening, as long as we're clear that this is not going to reach everyone, and will generally benefit the people who are in the best position to navigate the current system already....

Which brings us back to reducing the underlying complexity, so the IRS could handle more cases itself.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#175

Post by raresp »

gigaflop wrote: post #137
raresp wrote: post #136

Interesting news. But I see a lot of negative comments regarding the biometrics. Here's my two cents. I'm the founder of a biometric users identity check solution, called Typing AI Biometrics ( https://typing.ai ). We identify users by the way they type. Typing biometrics can be used as a two factor (2FA) or multi factor (MFA) authentication method. Instead of combining the usual username + password with an OTP code…

So then, I need to type the same password the same way every time? If I set up an account while I'm still waking up, and then try to use it after lunch and coffee, wouldn't I get locked out due to inputting faster than expected? Or what if I'm on the phone with someone, and trying to type with one hand? That would probably lock me out, right?

Our algorithm learns from previous detections. You will be able to enter different texts. Like writing your email or anything you want.

In the case of having an accident, you will be able to login into Typing AI and update your signature.

"Or what if I'm on the phone with someone, and trying to type with one hand? That would probably lock me out, right? " - good question. Your "one-hand" typing is totally different than writing with two hands but we also got this covered. The authenticity detection rate won't be over 90%, but it will still be over 80%.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#176

Post by raresp »

jfk13 wrote: post #141
gigaflop wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then, I need to type the same password the same way every time? If I set up an account while I'm still waking up, and then try to use it after lunch and coffee, wouldn't I get locked out due to inputting faster than expected? Or what if I'm on the phone with someone, and trying to type with one hand? That would probably lock me out, right?

How about when I break my wrist and it's in plaster for a couple of weeks? Seems unlikely that I'll maintain my characteristic typing pattern well enough to be recognised...

"How about when I break my wrist and it's in plaster for a couple of weeks?" - good question.

Your "one-hand" typing is totally different than writing with two hands but we also got this covered. The authenticity detection rate won't be over 90%, but it will still be over 80%.

In case of using the Typing AI as a two factor auth method, you can just skip to using a different factor, such as fingerprint/face recognition or OTP.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#177

Post by raresp »

LanternLight83 wrote: post #164
gigaflop wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then, I need to type the same password the same way every time? If I set up an account while I'm still waking up, and then try to use it after lunch and coffee, wouldn't I get locked out due to inputting faster than expected? Or what if I'm on the phone with someone, and trying to type with one hand? That would probably lock me out, right?

Or switching to an ergo keyboard, trying a new typing layout, or just joining your first touch typing course?

"trying a new typing layout, or just joining your first touch typing course?"

You have just described the case where your typing pattern is changed. In this case you'll have to just login to your account and update the signature or remove it and create a new one.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#178

Post by raresp »

chayesfss wrote: post #144
raresp wrote: post #136

Interesting news. But I see a lot of negative comments regarding the biometrics. Here's my two cents. I'm the founder of a biometric users identity check solution, called Typing AI Biometrics ( https://typing.ai ). We identify users by the way they type. Typing biometrics can be used as a two factor (2FA) or multi factor (MFA) authentication method. Instead of combining the usual username + password with an OTP code…

typing biometric software has been around for a long time (biorhythm) and from what I remember from years ago had issues with users typing in from different devices all the time, laptop to ext keyboard, iphone to ipad with keyboard, kiosk, etc... I don't think it would be more secure or as you put it "much more secure" than say, user/pass and a push notification as the push notification is out of band. These used to…

I understand your opinion, and yes, it's hard to be able to identify the owner of an accountby checking smartphones, tablets and desktop keyboards. The recommendation is to create separate signatures for all of these devices, in this way the typing signature will be more stronger and the keystrokes verification will be more accurate.

We are adding new cases to our algorithm almost weekly, the typing detection keeps getting better.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#179

Post by ThunderSizzle »

tzs wrote: post #171
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you have accepted that progressive taxes are acceptable. . .nobody can argue with a straight face that a 10 line table is too complicated. First, I don't think anyone should pay taxes on their labor. And just because my labor makes more shouldn't mean I pay a higher percentage; so, no, I don't agree with the concept of progressive taxation on labor. Regardless, that's what we have. Anyway, 10% after $50,000 is…

> With a 6-12 tax brackets with crazy amount of deductions, I need to [list of 5 steps] None of your steps are made more complicated by more brackets or less complicated by fewer brackets. You determine your taxable income (the complicated part), then lookup that taxable income in the tax tables (simple). If the taxable income is low enough, there is a table with a large number of entries that each cover a small enou…

You convinced me. Let's go to a single bracket system. No deductions. No credits. One rate. Everyone pays that on everything.

Re: IRS to ditch biometric requirement for online access

#180

Post by ThunderSizzle »

wolverine876 wrote: post #169
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs... https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs... Seems like the donations are pretty evenly split for the companies that would be the largest lobbies over the past several years. This seems like the case of the uniparty being apparent, where there's no real drive to simplify the tax code because it's something both can blame each other on…

Despite your hypothesis, the evidence is that the Democrats vote for it, and the GOP against it.

I haven't seen the Dems get into law a significant simplification of the tax code in the last 20 years. The last simplification we got was from Trump (which was a good step, but obviously isn't the final desired location).

He also did that before the Dems took back the House, so he had the GOP sign on to it.

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