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Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

pelm.com

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Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#51
Hey, friendly founder advice. Your opening hero and sub text does nothing to actually describe what your API is. This text you wrote would in my opinion be way better

"We are building an API that allows developers to access energy data, such as electricity usage or billing data, from utilities."

Change it to "An API to access your users utilities"

sub text: "Our API gives you access to your users energy data, such as electricity usage or billing data, to help build richer more meaningful applications in X industries"

Anyways, congrats on the launch!

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#52

Hey, friendly founder advice. Your opening hero and sub text does nothing to actually describe what your API is. This text you wrote would in my opinion be way better "We are building an API that allows developers to access energy data, such as electricity usage or billing data, from utilities." Change it to "An API to access your users utilities" sub text: "Our API gives you access to your users energy data, such as…

Aaaannnnddd just like that your text has already been updated. Love the new hero text :).

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#53
post #45
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://utilityapi.com/about I think UtilityAPI was founded by "tech people" as well. I wonder if you have any specific examples or comparisons that would make me want to use your service over a well-established company? I work in the energy industry, and while I would love to just try out your service for comparison, I don't have the time. Your site is very lacking in details. Also, you said you know how to build a…

Thanks for the feedback; as an early stage startup with two employees, we'll often miss things here and there, so I appreciate the callout for how we can improve our docs. While we may not be established right now and have some work to do, I'm confident we can build an amazing developer experience given time. UtilityAPI might have very detailed docs, but we think the end to end usability is still lacking. This has be…

The founders may have energy industry experience - which is what you want, since it's the operating domain and they'll have industry information and contacts that 'outsiders' won't - but they seem to have a pretty strong development team: https://utilityapi.com/team.

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#54
post #45
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://utilityapi.com/about I think UtilityAPI was founded by "tech people" as well. I wonder if you have any specific examples or comparisons that would make me want to use your service over a well-established company? I work in the energy industry, and while I would love to just try out your service for comparison, I don't have the time. Your site is very lacking in details. Also, you said you know how to build a…

Thanks for the feedback; as an early stage startup with two employees, we'll often miss things here and there, so I appreciate the callout for how we can improve our docs. While we may not be established right now and have some work to do, I'm confident we can build an amazing developer experience given time. UtilityAPI might have very detailed docs, but we think the end to end usability is still lacking. This has be…

I would have the docs much more specific on the results that you'll get back. I think from the looks of it, you're using some automated doc builder which takes your internal specs for the endpoint (like the OpenAPI spec or whatever) and outputs "examples" and the other doc pages.

Here is what you have now for an example response body, which is very lacking:

    {
      "account": {
        "id": "string",
        "unit": "string",
        "account_number": "string",
        "address": "string"
      },
      "intervals": [
        [
          "string"
        ]
      ]
    }
I would show something like this (clearly I don't know the exact formats or what each value is, so this is just illustrative):

    {
      "account": {
        "id": "1234567-123",
        "unit": "W",
        "account_number": "987654-1",
        "address": "AN_ADDRESS"
      },
      "intervals": [
        [
          "(1234567.4, 123.0)"
        ],
        [
          "(1234568.4, 123.0)"
        ],
        ...
      ]
    }
I think your docs could use a TON of manual refactoring after you output them from the automated tool OR you need to put a lot more details in the spec so that your automated tool will have better results.

For instance:

* What is "unit"? I assumed it's electrical units, but if that is the case, it doesn't make much sense to me, because that's not an account-level detail but rather a request detail (I should be able to add a param to the request to get Watts, Kilowatts, or whatever units I want each time).

* The "address" is also sketchy, because it is just a string field, so how do I parse that? will each "line" of the address be separated by a newline, or something else?

* The spec for "intervals" is a list of lists of strings, which is a weird way to output `(timestamp, value)` tuples; I would want to see that specified a bit better as well. I would expect either tuples of numbers (float, int, whatever) or something like a mapping with the meter numbers, timestamps, units, values, etc. specified like this (timestamps could be UTC seconds or (preferably) ISO strings):

    "intervals": {
        [
            "meter_id": "meter_123456",
            "units": "W",
            "timestamps": [
                "2022-01-01T12:45:15.123456+00:00",
                ...
            ],
            "values": [
                1500.0,
                ...
            ]
        ]
    {
or:

    "intervals": {
        [
            "meter_id": "meter_123456",
            "units": "W",
            "timestamped_values": [
                ["2022-01-01T12:45:15.123456+00:00", 1500.0],
                ...
            ]
        ]
    {
Some of this is implementation details, but format and documentation matters a LOT for this stuff, if you're providing a data API as a service.

That's all just from one endpoint. If you have 2 employees, I would look into hiring a technical doc writer as your 3rd if you're trying to build an "amazing developer experience" and also talking to more commercial customers who might use your product to run large data pipelines for energy controls and such. To me, the documentation is like a canary in a coal mine, and I wouldn't even attempt to use your product as-is because it would take me time to fool around with it to even see what formats the data is in and there is no differentiator from your product and others that makes me want to do that work.

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#56
post #43

We NEED to stop training users to give away passwords for account X to services that are not X. We NEED to! This is what enables phishing to work! It normalizes this! Please do not do this! Next time some old lady loses her life savings due to phishing, you'll know that in some small part plaid and this helped. They trained her that it is ok to provide her password to someone.

If utilities gave them any other way, I'm sure they'd be using it.

That is a poor excuse for a clearly bad security practice. That is akin to a mugger saying “if the world gave me another way to make money, I wouldn’t be mugging people”. Some things just shouldn’t be done! This is a hill I’m willing to die (by a thousand downvotes) on!

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#57

Hey, friendly founder advice. Your opening hero and sub text does nothing to actually describe what your API is. This text you wrote would in my opinion be way better "We are building an API that allows developers to access energy data, such as electricity usage or billing data, from utilities." Change it to "An API to access your users utilities" sub text: "Our API gives you access to your users energy data, such as…

Aaaannnnddd just like that your text has already been updated. Love the new hero text :).

Literally one minute later, wow! Love it! Congrats on the launch!

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#58
post #40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely on our roadmap...when we get to it largely depends on the needs of our early customers but know that we have it in mind!

Do you have a developer sandbox with some example data? It's not feasible for the developer to create accounts with different providers if some are across the country.

Here's the guide to using sandbox mode: https://pelm.readme.io/reference/sandbox-mode

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#59
I used to work at a startup which did the same thing for health records.

In fact, our frontend plugin was also called "Connect".

As an end user, it sounds like you will take my credentials for my utility provider, log into their website with those credentials, extract my data, store it in a normalized form in your DB, and expose it through your REST API.

Is this true?

If so, while you are logged in, you will also have access to financial information (e.g. bank account information, billing info, etc.). This is pretty sensitive data. What kind of guarantees are you making about not touching that data?

(All this assumes that my model for how Pelm works is true. Apologies if it isn't.)

Re: Launch HN: Pelm (YC W22) – Plaid for Utilities

#60

I used to work at a startup which did the same thing for health records. In fact, our frontend plugin was also called "Connect". As an end user, it sounds like you will take my credentials for my utility provider, log into their website with those credentials, extract my data, store it in a normalized form in your DB, and expose it through your REST API. Is this true? If so, while you are logged in, you will also hav…

You nailed it!

First guarantee is that nobody is manually going in and poking around your account details since the process you've described happens entirely programmatically.

Now, we could program our system to do things other than what's mentioned. However, we're quite disinterested in (actually, emphatically against) ruining our trust/reputation with customers (plus the general public) given our dependence on such relationships and desire to succeed as a company. All that's to say, the second guarantee is that we won't be touching such sensitive data unless given permission to do so by the user.

An example of when we might need to is if the user wants to pay their utility bill using stored payment options instead of submitting payment information. Even in this case, there won't be human eyes on this data; only our Python backend will be interacting with it.

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