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Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#551

Post by dymk »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #259
dymk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I mean fusion. The parent comment claims "[Fusion can] provide steady energy without going down for years". I want a single example of this. Meanwhile, we have massive grids of solar and battery being installed _today_, and existing installations replacing coal plants. I'm tired of people talking about fusion (or even nuclear, as it's so mired in public FUD) as if it's some panacea. We have a solution right now:…

We haven't invented commercial fusion power, so none; but theoretically that is how they would function. Solar and batteries are nice but they're not yet cost effective. They're getting better. But you can't just handwave away real problems from your armchair viewpoint and assume thats all fine.

> They're getting better.

Solar is getting so much cheaper, at such a fast pace, that I really don't understand how one can disagree that it's the future of our energy grids. Installing solar is a no-brainer in some parts of the world now, and in the very near future (extrapolating from the last 10 years), it'll be every part of the world soon.

What problems am I hand waving away?

https://www.statista.com/chart/26085/price-per-megawatt-hour...

Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#552

Post by kimbernator »

dymk wrote: post #230
kimbernator wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the sun

This is a great example, we should try to make use of all that sun (is there another word for that?) energy!

Obviously, it is a bit silly to point to the sun and say it's a successful fusion reactor in a discussion meant to refute solar's usefulness. Despite that, it is an example of the principles of fusion working quite reliably, and it should stand to reason that having smaller sun-like power sources would be preferable to relying on a single fusion reactor that's only available half of the time.

Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#554

Post by dahfizz »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #497
dahfizz wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wind + Solar are near useless without storage, and we do not have anything close to the storage necessary.

Storage likely will be a non-issue once sodium ion batteries scale up, even cheaper and safer than LFP. A couple more years of scale efficiencies and alt+storage will be cheaper without subsidies. Consumer solar+storage will be cheaper than nat gas in a couple years with any rational subsidy. Land issues? Seriously? The land issue for solar is a non-issue, it's like fake hand-wringing by the oil astroturfers over bir…

> Storage likely will be a non-issue once sodium ion batteries scale up, even cheaper and safer than LFP.

Sure, once storage is solved it will be a non-issue. But it is not currently solved, and you will forgive my skepticism.

I also never brought up land issues; I agree that it's not a real problem.

TL;DR we need to be realistic about the capabilities of solar + wind. You argue that storage will solve itself. Your sibling argues that we don't need storage at all.

The reality is that storage is a huge issue right now. It's the #1 technical issue stopping us from shutting down coal and natural gas plants.

Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#555

Post by hedora »

bityard wrote: post #516
tomp wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes you wonder if the US idea of using just 110 volts isn't better... not from an individual viewpoint (slower to boil water) but from the grid perspective.

The US grid (the last-mile bits anyway) isn't 110 volts, it's 220. It's just our houses that are wired for (mostly) 110 V. Edit: I would love to see some sort of hybrid 110/220 V residential wiring/plug standard take hold in the US. It would require more expensive cable in the walls (since you need one additional conductor) and plugs, but it's totally doable. Most electrical products and appliances made these days ar…

You could just run US-style appliance circuits to your kitchen, etc. Those are sometimes three conductor and other times four conductor.

However, I doubt it'd pass inspection if they were easily accessible from the counter-top.

If you're going to flout building codes anyway, it'd probably be easier/more practical to just run circuits with foreign outlets instead. Also, it might be easier to find appropriate GFCI breakers.

Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#556

Post by ComradePhil »

dymk wrote: post #172
ComradePhil wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Fusion is completely different from solar. It can provide steady energy without going down for years. Solar goes down multiple times a day.

Name a single fusion plant that has been running uninterrupted for years. Meanwhile Australia has retooled for 10% Solar and batteries in a matter of years, that number is rapidly increasing, and is turning off their coal plants.

It can do that if they manage to make it work as planned

Solar, even under ideal conditions, needs backup and much more manpower and management to make it work... and even then, it is not reliable.

So, solar is not a replacement for fusion, or nuclear or coal for that matter. It is great for supplementation though.

Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#557

Post by hedora »

toast0 wrote: post #539
bityard wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US grid (the last-mile bits anyway) isn't 110 volts, it's 220. It's just our houses that are wired for (mostly) 110 V. Edit: I would love to see some sort of hybrid 110/220 V residential wiring/plug standard take hold in the US. It would require more expensive cable in the walls (since you need one additional conductor) and plugs, but it's totally doable. Most electrical products and appliances made these days ar…

There is NEMA 14, which has hot,hot,neutral,ground, but I don't think anything lower than 20amps is available, and that's a locking one, 30 amps is available without locks, but 30 amps at 220v is a lot of power for household outlets. You'd need larger wire in the walls, not just more of them. Any sort of outlet upgrade would need a really good plan for how to make it viable, because even if 100% of new construction u…

You could include a second cable with the teapot, and wire it to work with 110 or 220 depending on which cable is used. This is already reasonably common. I have plenty of useless European cables laying around to prove it.

Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#558

Post by kimbernator »

gtsop wrote: post #370
kimbernator wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar comes with a lot of challenges for large-scale usage as a replacement for coal, nuclear, etc. Really, the only thing better about solar at the moment is that it is available. First off, the daylight cycle is an obvious concern and there still isn't a great way to store solar energy during the day for use by cities (or generally large consumers) at night. Not to say it's not possible, but people are largely stil…

> First off, the daylight cycle is an obvious concern and there still isn't a great way to store solar energy during the day for use by cities (or generally large consumers) at night. Not to say it's not possible, but people are largely still trying to figure out what the right solution for that is. Not a concern at all. Google renewable energy storage. It is there but there is profit merit, so it is not welcome

Could you just be more specific about the storage method you're hoping I'll find on google? I know that there are a number of "viable" options for massive population centers in theory (or even in limited use today), but to call it a solved problem is, to my knowledge, incorrect

Re: Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy

#560

Post by elihu »

px43 wrote: post #385
ppaattrriicckk wrote: post #59

In extension to this news and the press conference, one thing I am super excited about, is the private SPARC project and the MIT-spinoff Commonwealth Fusion Systems (CFS). If you don't know about it already, I would highly recommend checking it out (e.g. by searching YouTube for "MIT Sparc Fusion Reactor" for some fairly accessible videos on the theory behind why they should achieve fusion way faster than the current…

The insane thing that people should realize about the 20T CFS test back in September was that it was them completing the first of 18 coils, and it performed incredibly well. The secret sauce is better high temperature superconductors, and the ridiculous magnets you can build with them. They're pretty much putting these coils together as quickly as they can accumulate the HTSC wiring, and once they have all 18, they b…

ReBCO tape is the specific high-temperature superconducting material they're using.

Another important material is FLiBe, which is a liquid that I think absorbs the energy from the fusion reactor. I don't really understand the properties that make it particularly well suited to the task, but I gather it's important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_barium_copper_oxide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLiBe

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