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Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

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Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#131

Post by sireat »

gonehome wrote: post #119
bpeebles wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't list any so I'll bite, I guess. What "cryptocurrency" company isn't a "scam" as basically defined in the post?

It’s not we’ll defined in the post, but there are some easy examples. Rainbow wallet is just working on a wallet with nicer UX: https://rainbow.me/ OpenSea, Coinbase, FTX - basic exchanges supporting the market. Trezor and Ledger make nice hardware wallets. If you’re specifically asking about companies that have their own token for something, I think urbit’s use of NFTs as IDs for their network is a cool use that mak…

Let's assume those are mostly legitimate (BAYC being cool is highly questionable but ok)

Even then all of those are services and goods for the crypto ecosystem.

So much of crypto space is turtles all the way down.

Besides evading capital controls, there is not much real world adoption for crypto still.

You start living in the crypto world and then yes you start thinking DeFi is cool and useful. I am yet to see how DeFi can help someone who is not already invested in crypto.

PS Mined first BTC in 2011 but got out of the whole greenhouse in 2017.

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#132

Post by jlcoff »

lowkey wrote: post #129
cormacrelf wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you will soon find that there are very little companies that you would allow yourself to work for. That’s literally the idea. People doing bad things should find hiring minions difficult.

But how far are you as an individual willing to go? - Apple uses exploitative labor practices to manufacture iPhones [0] - Google is increasingly being recognized as a surveillance and manipulation platform. They have even been caught manipulating elections [1] [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-te... [1] https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/download/epstein-testimony

Big tech get a free pass because, in the western world at least, they offer their regular sacrifice to the dogmatic left God.

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#133

Post by jlcoff »

jlcoff wrote: post #123
lamontcg wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honesty is for the poor. The morality and ethics crisis in our country in a nutshell. We're building bigger and better systems to scam and exploit each other, meanwhile China keeps on getting better at building real stuff.

Don't give me that China bullshit, the poors have been explored tough morality and honesty forever by the various churches, nobility, ruling classes/party, INCLUDING in China.

typo: explored -> exploited

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#134

Post by gonehome »

sireat wrote: post #131
gonehome wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not we’ll defined in the post, but there are some easy examples. Rainbow wallet is just working on a wallet with nicer UX: https://rainbow.me/ OpenSea, Coinbase, FTX - basic exchanges supporting the market. Trezor and Ledger make nice hardware wallets. If you’re specifically asking about companies that have their own token for something, I think urbit’s use of NFTs as IDs for their network is a cool use that mak…

Let's assume those are mostly legitimate (BAYC being cool is highly questionable but ok) Even then all of those are services and goods for the crypto ecosystem. So much of crypto space is turtles all the way down. Besides evading capital controls, there is not much real world adoption for crypto still. You start living in the crypto world and then yes you start thinking DeFi is cool and useful. I am yet to see how De…

I'd read that bitcoin for the open minded skeptic article I linked, I think it makes a good argument about that core use case.

A decentralized global store of value has a lot of utility - more so in countries with bad financial systems and limited access to dollars. I think global currency/value store is the killer application of blockchains, and it makes sense a lot of the focus is on tooling/products around this. Provable membership/ownership via tokens is an interesting spin off.

Evading capital controls I think isn't a great use of it actually given the public nature of transactions (unless you're willing to flee the country I guess, which can be good for getting wealth out of countries with authoritarian governments).

The ability to publish and update decentralized state is a new ability and useful. There are obvious tradeoffs around speed and complexity and a lot of things should not make that tradeoff, but the use cases here are real - at least I'd bet on that, it's not "all a scam".

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#136

Post by fizzledbits »

invalidname wrote: post #67

I'm listed as a founder of crypto startup and I think it's a scam. I got there by accident. I thought it's a scam before but now I'm more convinced. My best friend works for a company that is literally a scam (founder arrested etc). They changed owners but he wants to cash in on that. Another colleague actually bought into the whole nonsense and started something. Then we all got roped in. I want out but I'm torn bec…

Unless you want to be one of the deservedly despised faces of a future economic crisis, you might want to get out now.

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#137

Post by fizzledbits »

jlcoff wrote: post #74
cinntaile wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how you can work with something that you perceive as a scam? So when you tell your friends or your parents you say "yeah, I rip people off for a living. Haha"?

I build tools other people are free to use. I have historically refused to implement tools to be used for censorship purpose. Here, you're free to invest/yolo.. or not.

Ah the meth dealer’s ethic: “I just sell the stuff, they choose to smoke it.”

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#138

Post by googlerx »

jlcoff wrote: post #87
cormacrelf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) You having money and being fine means you have the power to leave. (2) You cannot explain away 2008 as being the fault of the people who couldn't pay their mortgage. WTAF dude. What I'm getting from this is that you have wrapped yourself up in a nice blanket of ignorance and a nice comfy salary, and while you have come to the conclusion that the business you're engaging in is fraudulent, you've convinced yourself…

> (2) You cannot explain away 2008 as being the fault of the people who couldn't pay their mortgage. WTAF dude. When you are subprime rated, you would have to be a complete moron to take a variable loan on you life. But sure, poor them, it's not their fault, it's the mean evil banker who gave them a tool to shoot themselves with ... That the difference between you and me. I'm gonna give people the freedom to shoot th…

You might have a point if the only negative outcome of 2008 was that a lot of people lost homes they could never afford.

It was the banks' and regulators' responsibility to not allow bad loans to be issued and resold as mis-labeled AAA investment vehicles. That is the part that broke the global economy.

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#139

Post by fizzledbits »

jlcoff wrote: post #76
cormacrelf wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving out the pretty extreme lack of morality going on here, one reason that may resonate in this community of rich programmers and capitalists is that we shouldn't do it because fraud is inefficient. It is a huge drain on your economy. It is not a good use of capital or time. If for instance it is all a scam and everything collapses to nothing, that's ten years of completely wasted human effort. If you built it an…

I don't have any problem cashing in my 6 figures paycheck when pezzonavantes (from any side since forever) cash out 9 to 10 figures own scams. Honesty is for the poor.

Keep working hard and maybe one day you’ll be one of those upper echelon sociopaths.

Re: Ask HN: Does Anyone else working in a crypto company feel this is all a scam?

#140

Post by ryan_lane »

sireat wrote: post #131
gonehome wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not we’ll defined in the post, but there are some easy examples. Rainbow wallet is just working on a wallet with nicer UX: https://rainbow.me/ OpenSea, Coinbase, FTX - basic exchanges supporting the market. Trezor and Ledger make nice hardware wallets. If you’re specifically asking about companies that have their own token for something, I think urbit’s use of NFTs as IDs for their network is a cool use that mak…

Let's assume those are mostly legitimate (BAYC being cool is highly questionable but ok) Even then all of those are services and goods for the crypto ecosystem. So much of crypto space is turtles all the way down. Besides evading capital controls, there is not much real world adoption for crypto still. You start living in the crypto world and then yes you start thinking DeFi is cool and useful. I am yet to see how De…

Even if you're in crypto, it's good to note that DeFi is collateralized lending, for which the intended purpose is to avoid paying capital gains for the borrower, or making unrealistic returns for the lender because they're helping people avoid taxes.

I'm not saying this is unique to crypto (stock collateralized loans help the rich avoid paying taxes in the same way), but it's not interesting or unique.

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