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TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

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Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#191

Post by dragonelite »

uhtred wrote: post #101

This is why I only install a few absolutely necessary apps, and mostly from fdroid. It makes me anxious to see friends install 3 different electric scooter apps in the space of 10 minutes just to try and unlock a scooter. I doubt those apps ever get removed once no longer needed.

Why or you can just accept the fact that your phone is your personal bug device your willingly carry around. The only safe space is your brain/thoughts and even that space is something they want to monitor with computer-brain interfaces.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#192

Post by echelon »

hillbillydilly wrote: post #188
zerocrates wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can the government legally restrict that kind of activity? It would be pretty cut-and-dried viewpoint discrimination triggering the most severe First Amendment scrutiny. Beyond that, I'm not sure how easy it would really be to detect. Seems like the method for that kind of thing would more likely be to have networks of users/bots/whatever that take advantage of facially neutral recommendation algorithms. So would…

yea these convos really make me think 'all hope is lost' when you get some decent idea fleshed out re: adtech algorithm auditing and your first thought is: yea lets root out anti american sentiment in the algo. facepalm strong fox news vibes around here these days

> lets root out anti american sentiment in the algo. facepalm strong fox news vibes around here these days

I said measure. We need to understand if we're being manipulated, and if so, figure out what an appropriate response should be. Maybe it's as simple as releasing a report and letting the media talk about it. Knowing gives us the ability to develop a response.

Filter bubbles are relatively new, and it's not yet clear the extent to which they can be used to shape a democratic society.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#193

Post by ethbr0 »

zerocrates wrote: post #167
echelon wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preferential treatment of anti-democratic messages and rhetoric or anti-US sentiment. This should be measurable.

But can the government legally restrict that kind of activity? It would be pretty cut-and-dried viewpoint discrimination triggering the most severe First Amendment scrutiny. Beyond that, I'm not sure how easy it would really be to detect. Seems like the method for that kind of thing would more likely be to have networks of users/bots/whatever that take advantage of facially neutral recommendation algorithms. So would…

Isn't this an issue that US First Amendment law has dealt with since the founding of the country?

My understanding (vastly simplifying) is that the current standard is: does not infringe on rights of protected classes, does not incite imminent violence, & subject to national security concerns.

All of which are fuzzy lines, subject to court interpretation on a case by case basis, as they should be. (Even national security, which courts have traditionally granted wider latitude to)

All three are plausible rationales under which to bring a hypothetical "antidemocratic" case (to use a catch-all term that encompasses what people seem to be implying).

At core, and first principles, what "we" probably want as a nation is a sliding scale that moves from primacy of shareholder / owner to primacy of public, according to user count & market percentage.

Aka if you're a 10,000 user app, and you think (non-inciteful) racist content will make you the most money, that's your (terribly immoral) business.

But if you're a 100,000,000+ user multi-app company, then public and democratic interest takes primacy over your shareholders. Don't like that? Spin off some products.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#194

Post by OLL_IE »

partiallypro wrote: post #71

I don't understand what useful information could be harvested, as unlike Google/Facebook there is no massive tracking pixel product that follows you across the web. I'm a massive critic of the CCP, but I don't see what useful information they would get from this. I think a bigger "conspiracy theory" I'd buy into would be the algrorithm exploiting political extremes and pushing insane voices to the top...but every soc…

Just FYI TikTok does also have a tracking pixel, obviously it’s not as widespread as Google/Facebooks but it’s growing in use.

See: https://www.tiktokforbusinesseurope.com/resources/install-ti...

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#195

Post by balls187 »

josephd79 wrote: post #184

China has taken over our youth.

A buddy of mine lamented something similar recently.

He was talking about the free apps his children use on their tablets, and while he likes diversity, was astonished at how much of the apps were pushing chinese culture.

Both my boys (neither are ethnic Chinese) speak mandarin. None have come home from school espousing any ideals that differ from our family values, but it will be interesting to see as they grow.

Final off-topic comment, the world of Firefly is one where Chinese culture became the dominant culture (though for obvious reasons the show is in English)

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#196

Post by ferrumfist »

twofornone wrote: post #42
duxup wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They banned tik tok ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%E2%80%93TikTok_... Trump admin tried to restrict its use, at least among government/military, and perhaps predictably he was accused of racism/sinophobia...but the threat was just as real then as now.

The prevailing sentiment had nothing to do with racism, I recall the more liberal circles of the Internet lambasting his "small government, pro-business" stance while he uses executive orders to clamp down on private businesses.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#197

Post by discardedrefuse »

It ridiculous how TikTok keeps getting a pass from practically everyone. Are memories so short lived?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725139

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23634138

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23684950

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26477064

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#198

Post by ethbr0 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #169
echelon wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preferential treatment of anti-democratic messages and rhetoric or anti-US sentiment. This should be measurable.

That sounds like a recipe for authoritarianism. Sorry, X thing that I don't like is "anti-US sentiment".

That's why in matters of redress, I always skew towards visibility over modification. The latter is too powerful, in the hands of too few.

I've had this same argument with military friends lamenting the prevalence of ex-military citizens among right wing nationalist groups. IMHO, "make people attend classes to fight indoctrination" is too easily repurposed by a future administration to do the exact opposite.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#199

Post by twofornone »

duxup wrote: post #142
dymk wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell what a real attempt looks like to you?

Legislation, a department taking action within their legal powers. In the US it really does matter how you do things. Just the whim of the president is not enough for it to happen. Trump had no legal basis for his order. He liked to act like he was doing things with grand strokes, many of them were doomed to fail. I'm not convinced that he or those around him even cared if they did or not. I don't think you can read…

Are you sure that the head of the executive branch does not have authority to ban federal employees from using an app which potentially poses a national security threat?

I don't think its so clear cut. In any case its hardly the first time that a president made a potentially unconditional to be ruled upon by courts later.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#200

Post by xinniethepooh »

Ekaros wrote: post #90
saas_sam wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every tech company executive in the USA is not required to operate as an agent for one political party by threat of being disappeared. Our entire internet is not locked down to prevent political dissidents from sharing their views. Our government doesn't pay to flood our social media networks with astroturfing to create the illusion of popular support for its policies. These things add a more serious tone to the conv…

No, but they intelligence agencies do the same stuff. And private hidden funders of politicians do the astroturfing... I don't really see much difference if it done by government or people who pay the politicians running the government.

Politicians are voted in by the people, and giving money to politicians to advance an initiative isn't guaranteed.

You don't really see much difference? Democratically elected politicians versus central party that allows no dissent and has complete control over information and actions of its citizens to the point of genocidal assimilation.

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