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Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

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Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's stop putting sugar in water; that should solve most of the problem.

The "sugar in water" is not a problem, rather a symptom: it is a very effective and cheap way to get calories into a human. Way too many people lack a combination of access to fresh groceries (they live in "food deserts" [1]), enough money to afford these groceries [2], enough time to cook healthy food [3], or skills to cook food [4] - and most often these issues collide in poor and otherwise disadvantaged people...…

You’re conflating a bunch of separate concerns. You’re saying that people are drinking soda because they need cheap calories and can’t get them because they live in food deserts and are in poverty and somehow are obese despite insufficient calories. This all does not make sense.

Soda is not cheap. A 2-liter bottle of Coca Cola contains 900 calories of corn syrup and costs $2 at my nearest Walmart. For the same $2, you can buy a 4lb bag of sugar and get 3400 calories if you don’t care that your calories are coming from sugar.

If you want something that at least kind of looks like food you could get 1200 calories of Chips Ahoy cookies for that $2 and while that’s not good for you, it’s gotta be better for you than soda. $2 will also get you about 1200 calories of Wonder bread or Great Value granola. Or $2 will get you a whopping 1500 calories of Kraft Mac and Cheese. Soda is a shitty deal in terms of calories. Even milk costs less per calorie than Coca Cola. And don’t tell me poor people are mostly buying off-brand cola because it’s not rich people making Coca Cola billions. (And it doesn’t change much because I was mostly comparing equivalent brands. You can get calories from Walmart-branded bread as cheaply as you can from Walmart-branded soda.)

People buy soda because it’s tasty, convenient, and widely advertised, not because it’s cheap calories.

Obese people are also not in need of more calories so the idea that they are turning to soda because they need cheap calories doesn’t make a bit of sense.

> The thing to tackle is poverty because it sits at the root of all of these issues, not making sugary drinks more expensive - all this does is punish the poor people yet again for being poor!

These are orthogonal. You can “tackle poverty” and also make soda expensive. This isn’t punishing people for being poor. It’s placing a tax on a very unhealthy habit to make it less appealing, exactly as we do for cigarettes.

This argument might be compelling if people actually needed soda for the calories, but they don’t.

> skills to cook food [4]

This is an odd choice of article. It says literally nothing about poverty or why poor people don’t cook. It’s just some random survey of adults who say they don’t cook and only 23% of them said it was because they don’t know how anyway. Of those, there is some unknown overlap with the 51% who say their spouse does all the cooking and undoubtedly some overlap with other groups such the group who live at home with their parents and the group who have enough money to always eat out.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in the US -- 66% over eat. Eat less, poop less.

It’s not just a US problem. Obesity is going up everywhere. Even in pets.

> Obesity is going up everywhere. Even in pets.

That's because most pet food is unhealthy crap - the worst offender is food that has sugar added for optics/smell reasons or grains because they are cheaper than meat. Healthy food for pets stinks and looks bad, so manufacturers add sugar that the humans keep on buying it.

On top of that, most pets don't get nearly the amount of movement they need - their owners don't have the time to take their dog on the two to three hours (!) a day that energetic, former work dog breeds need, or they are being kept solitary... if there is one thing that adopting a pair of kittens has taught me it is that they contain absurd amounts of energy that they burn through playing, and solitary cats can't release it.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#84

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/09/recycling-animal-and... A related article from Low-Tech Magazine, published in 2010.

Also see https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2021/03/urban-fish-ponds-l...

The end of that article is kind of sad because it details the reasons these very effective low-tech sewage treatment methods are being phased out, and they are some of the same systemic problems that are preventing climate action worldwide: - low cost of fossil fuels (due to negative externalities) driving out sustainable alternatives - global speculation on real estate / urban sprawl - inadequate regulation of destructive activities

Everything will have to change for our civilization to continue in the face of the climate crisis, we must rethink every system our lifestyle relies upon, sewers included.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#85

> That’s in part because urine is rich in nutrients that, instead of polluting water bodies, could go towards fertilizing crops or feed into industrial processes. Huh? We're already producing way too much fertilizer from farm animals, which leads to the situation that countries like the Netherlands [1] and Germany [2] experience a massive oversupply of dung that has to be shipped sometimes hundreds of kilometers beca…

Do you have a source in English?

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and where does the energy and fertilizer come from to do that? right, fossil fuels. Last I checked, there's a currently an existential threat linked to use of those that are the main driver for why all these initiatives are going on. I'm not happy about it either but its a choice between each individual's footprint going down or reducing the amount of individuals.

What exactly is the existential threat? If population is at all time highs, if lifespans are at all time highs, if crop yields are at all time highs, if deaths from natural disasters are at all time lows, what is the existential threat?

well, lets see here.. its currently causing increased forest fires, rising sea levels, desertification, glaciers melting, destabilization of the sea currents, collapsing ecosystems.

DO I need to spell it out for you or are you willfully living under a rock?

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#88
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Sigh. Why does every discussion about overpopulation immediately devolve to food supply? I get that seems like the obvious thing to talk about, but the real world of supply chains and materials is far more complex than "food". It guaranteed that we can industrially produce far above our current population levels and we'll totally screw up the planet. How do I know? Because of global warming and mass extinctions. What…

Meat ag is the problem. If everyone had piles of sausages, burgers. and steaks for every meal, food production would be incredibly difficult and expensive.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#89
post #30

Drying urine, transporting it, this is extremely energy intensive. There's a much simpler solution: composting toilets. Easy to setup, requires very little input (basically just some dry material like wood shavings (i.e. waste from wood processing that you can sometimes get for free) and you're done. The "humanure" mixed with the dry material goes in a compost bin, sits there for two years, then can be applied to the…

Quoted post unavailable.

Please don't post flamebait. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#90

Quoted post unavailable.

Please don't start flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

Edit: since your account is using HN primarily for ideological battle, I've banned it. We ban accounts that do that regardless of what they're battling for, because it's so destructive of the intended purpose of this site. Past explanations if anyone wants more:

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

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