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TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

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Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#161

Post by robbedpeter »

selfportrait wrote: post #155
robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

I don’t refute anything you say, but linking to a page that features Glenn Beck, Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson doesn’t help your case. Not to mention the clear partisanship and call for donation to the “American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology” - a rabbit hole I’m happy to avoid.

That's an artifact of the politics. If a company had been tilting this in favor of the right, you would find Maddow, Lemon, and other left wing bobbleheads instead of right wing bobbleheads.

Don't let guilt by association bias your thinking in this, but give the subject the deliberation it deserves. If you value the integrity of democracy and public discourse, ignore the messengers for whom the optics are politically convenient and focus on the message.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#162

Post by zerocrates »

ethbr0 wrote: post #121
blakesterz wrote: post #2

I found the actual report this is based on even more interesting: https://app.urlgeni.us/blog/new-research-across-200-ios-apps... Just a few of the highlights: Magazine apps had the highest number of total network contacts (28), and the highest percentage of third party domain contacts (93%) Social apps, followed by Games apps, made the fewest number of network contacts, 6 and 7 respectively. Apps making the most num…

Agreed, the underlying was more interested than the summary. And also seems to be a case of measuring what's conveniently measurable. The fact that {product} has only 1 connection to {product first party domain} doesn't say a lot about anything, given they could be internally proxying to and from who knows how many partners? It'd be more helpful to at least see total traffic per domain. It made me curious that the hi…

Yes, third-party direct connections from apps is useful information in some ways and I'd prefer to keep it down rather than spread things around widely.

But what people are really worried about with Facebook or TikTok or whoever building and aggregating information about them, doesn't require talking to a third party at all, and if you clamp down on these direct connections everything could just pass through the "first party" and through to whoever they wish on the server side where you can't see the connections anyway.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#163

Post by consumer451 »

robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

My one nitpick is that I believe it would be best to replace "China" with "CCP" in your statement. It's important to be specific in cases like these. I think it likely that it is not geographical China, nor all Chinese people you are attempting to reference, but their leadership the CCP.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#164

Post by echelon »

cortesoft wrote: post #131
yibg wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d rather have a generally applicable law in place. If we think massive data collection shouldn’t be allowed then ban that.

How would you ban data collection happening in a foreign country?

Require servers to be hosted domestically. This doesn't prevent exfiltration, but it can be more closely regulated and inspected.

Many countries ask this of US companies, so there's no reason we shouldn't adopt a similar stance.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#165

Post by msrenee »

robbedpeter wrote: post #161
selfportrait wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t refute anything you say, but linking to a page that features Glenn Beck, Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson doesn’t help your case. Not to mention the clear partisanship and call for donation to the “American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology” - a rabbit hole I’m happy to avoid.

That's an artifact of the politics. If a company had been tilting this in favor of the right, you would find Maddow, Lemon, and other left wing bobbleheads instead of right wing bobbleheads. Don't let guilt by association bias your thinking in this, but give the subject the deliberation it deserves. If you value the integrity of democracy and public discourse, ignore the messengers for whom the optics are politically…

What am I supposed to see on that site besides a guy trying to market a monitoring system that he made?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#166

Post by hangonhn »

netcan wrote: post #26
robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

>> China is not a good faith operator. Who is? I don't mean to be trite or contrary, but TikTok is coming into an environment where norms are pretty damned shady. Google as you and the article say, also consume user data quite unethically. FB likewise surveil us for their advertising businesses. They both also happen to host and control a good chunk of political and politically adjacent content within that framework.…

Agreed. Rather than targeting a specific country or specific company, make it a large category. Grey areas are where companies, regardless of national origin, can optimize and manipulate. We need to shift the conversation away from "China bad; ban Chinese companies" to one about protecting people and their right to privacy. After all, this is the goal, right? We don't want to be saying "Privacy violations are OK as long as the companies are Western." but rather "People have a right to privacy."

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#167

Post by zerocrates »

echelon wrote: post #160
zerocrates wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auditable for what, though? What would you find there that you would have the government ban?

Preferential treatment of anti-democratic messages and rhetoric or anti-US sentiment. This should be measurable.

But can the government legally restrict that kind of activity? It would be pretty cut-and-dried viewpoint discrimination triggering the most severe First Amendment scrutiny.

Beyond that, I'm not sure how easy it would really be to detect. Seems like the method for that kind of thing would more likely be to have networks of users/bots/whatever that take advantage of facially neutral recommendation algorithms. So would you catch that by auditing the algorithm?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#168

Post by duxup »

mannerheim wrote: post #151
duxup wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me an executive order doomed to fail in the courts really isn't a real attempt.

Why was it doomed to fail in the courts? Trump banned Huawei with an executive order as well.

The short answer is Trump's order had actual legal grounds to stick as far as Huawei goes.

Regarding Huawei , Trump basically told the Commerce Department to take action, Huawei was already (or was in the process of being) blacklisted by the commerce department, the commerce department does have the legal right to do that given the nature of Huawei's products and sensitivity of communications equipment.

The commerce department doesn't currently (although I believe lawmakers are looking into it) have the authority to simply blanket ban an app like tiktok on a whim / order. They simply can't do that for any old reason the POTUS says.

As I noted in another comment, in the US it does matter HOW you do things, the courts are independent (compared to say China) regardless how "right" someone might be they need to follow the law.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#169

Post by robertlagrant »

echelon wrote: post #160
zerocrates wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auditable for what, though? What would you find there that you would have the government ban?

Preferential treatment of anti-democratic messages and rhetoric or anti-US sentiment. This should be measurable.

That sounds like a recipe for authoritarianism. Sorry, X thing that I don't like is "anti-US sentiment".

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#170

Post by mannerheim »

duxup wrote: post #168
mannerheim wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was it doomed to fail in the courts? Trump banned Huawei with an executive order as well.

The short answer is Trump's order had actual legal grounds to stick as far as Huawei goes. Regarding Huawei , Trump basically told the Commerce Department to take action, Huawei was already (or was in the process of being) blacklisted by the commerce department, the commerce department does have the legal right to do that given the nature of Huawei's products and sensitivity of communications equipment. The commerce…

My understanding was that the real teeth behind both EOs is that they prohibited American companies from doing business with Huawei and TikTok. So Huawei would not be able to sell through American retailers, and TikTok wouldn't be available in the Apple store or the Play store, and they couldn't get an American CDN.
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