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Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

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Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#231
post #63

Another electricity market of similar scale that is also an energy-only market is the Australian NEM. It hasn't had an event similar to the ERCOT disaster of last winter yet, but there have been discussions about adding a capacity market mechanism.

and every single EU market is energy-only. (only UK has capacity market and that was held up in the courts for a while. obviously no longer in the EU)

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have over-simplified to the point of being incorrect. The Alamo is one of many battles during the Texas revolution which primarily occurred due to the move of Mexico to a centralized power instead of a federalized one. Texas had already endured a constitutional change, increased taxes, immigration being made illegal and changes in the legality of slavery. While Santa Anna blamed "illegal immigrants" heavily, he a…

And yet this revolution was still started by American settlers and other Americans that the settlers convinced to cross into Mexico. I agree that Santa Ana was authoritarian, but the Alamo was not a symbol of freedom from authoritarianism. It was a rebellion which was only a relevant point because American settlers chose to live in Mexico and failed to uphold the contract with their new government: to limit slavery t…

Well really the revolution was due to Mexico betraying Spain and failing as a centralized government as Spain said they would.

I think you are missing that Texas had always been distinct - not just part of Mexico/Spain - and that those immigrants didn't suddenly pop there right before to pick up Texas but had been living there since it was Spanish territory.

Even France wanted to buy Texas as a distinct entity at one point.

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#233
The actual paper as well as the press release points something out that I think a lot of the "lol, Texas" discussion here is missing - many markets globally are Energy Only including all EU markets. (the only European capacity market is in the UK). So Texas is not some kind of buccaneering outlier in having an energy only market. Where they might differ is in how tightly they enforce security of supply requirements - had all the installed gas generation been able to run there would have been problem.

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#234
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deregulation isn't about improving consumer outcomes, it's about improving profits. Expecting it to result in lower cost per kWh is a losing game.

What seems most remarkable to me is that we've got a fair amount of anti-free-market vitriol in the replies around here but nobody feels a need to provide any argument or evidence. The only person waving evidence around in this thread demonstrates that Texas has substantially lower electricity prices than the US average. And the article argues that there are edge cases where the market design could be improved. But I…

> The only person waving evidence around in this thread demonstrates that Texas has substantially lower electricity prices than the US average.

Only if one ignores consequences (externalities).

System failures leading to fatalities, casualties, losses incurred by other businesses, parents staying home with kids because schools closed, customers getting stiffed with emergency pricing, retail rush on generators and propane, etc.

Your basic Freedom Markets™ scenario of using disaster (capitalism) to bulk transfer wealth from customers and tax payers to gate keeping elites.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

> ...just isn't that big a deal for arguing about regulation vs deregulation on either side of the fence.

What about accountability? Consequences?

Where in your thesis are victims able to be made whole?

--

Markets have rules. That's what makes them markets. No rules, no markets. Then it's just an extortion racket, no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig.

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#235
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What seems most remarkable to me is that we've got a fair amount of anti-free-market vitriol in the replies around here but nobody feels a need to provide any argument or evidence. The only person waving evidence around in this thread demonstrates that Texas has substantially lower electricity prices than the US average. And the article argues that there are edge cases where the market design could be improved. But I…

Depends on your definition of "free market". If you mean libre non-profit exchange between consenting peers, i'm all for free market. If you mean a profit-based economy where the people who "own" everything dictate life conditions for the rest of us, i'm pretty much against it. > Is it to much to ask that the opinions are supported by evidence? Economy is not a field i'm familiar with so i can't unfortunately provide…

Markets are open, gray, black, or closed. There are no "free markets".

"Free markets" rhetoric is a catchy slogan for might makes right. No contracts, no rule of law, no fair and impartial arbitrators, no opportunity for recourse (tort). So not a market.

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, (ie, poorly), California pays for both power and capacity. Capacity payments are paid whether the plant is used or not, and capacity has fairly strict uptime requirements or it doesn't pay for that capacity.

I havent studied this in depth, but my intuition tells me that having capacity payments such that the grid as a whole has sufficient overhead for extreme events nullifies any "efficiency" arguments for having these market mechanisms in the first place. Call me crazy, I think that Texas is doing exactly what it set out to do with deregulation. Run the grid more efficiently via market mechanisms. The method that is use…

I don't think "let's save $5 a month and then have a catastrophic blackout" was a goal. I think it was the usual handwavey "the market will solve everything because good markets are so efficient" argument, which turned out as it usually does because the market isn't good.

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#237
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

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That's not what happened in my country. Slavery was actually seen as unethical and unchristian until someone started to do the math that there was money in it. Public attitudes changed after that. Greed is not always good.

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just describing class struggle and industry, not capitalism specifically. Capitalism was once revolutionary against feudalism, as the bourgeoisie replaced the nobility as the ruling class. But that hasn't been the case for centuries.

[flagged]

> considering Marx was a literal man child

I must ask. Why, according to you, was he a "literal man child"?

Re: Texas power crisis revealed flaw in market’s design

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eastern Ontario also gets wind and ice. Every single year. And yet it has electricity.

Exactly. Eastern Ontario gets wind and ice and cold EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Every one. If you don't winterize, you don't work. It is a cost. In Texas, basically up until last year with that blackout, there was no downside to not winterizing. Why? Most of our pipes aren't even deep enough to handle a hard freeze - because we don't usually get hard freezes.

There's been a deep freeze every year for two years now. It might be worth considering there's going to be another one next year.
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