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Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

economist.com

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Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#61

Post by allisdust »

benjamir wrote: post #42

I think I would cry tears of joy even seeing _anyone_ even just wiggle their toes after not being able to do so. How awesome that most be to witness somebody who could only recently dream of doing this, really accomplish this? _This_ is infinitely more amazing than any crypto shit, saving-the-world with Lomi blah blah blah and senseless techno-garbage some wanna-be-rich-thanks-to-an-exit-strategy creeps propagate on…

Or the ad industry that keeps peddling more material shit on all of humanity. They ensure that the brightest minds are occupied by only one thought: how to maximise clicks.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#62

Post by eps »

jcun4128 wrote: post #19
twayt wrote: post #17

I wonder if this could be used for a truly immersive vr experience. 1. Hook up said implant, convert analog impulse to digital 2. Chemically induce paralysis of the peripheral motor neurons (??) 3. Truly immersive VR experience where participant controls embodied avatar

SAO Wonder if you use your mind vs. a display, then are the visuals as good as real life. Or maybe you feed the image and your mind upscales it.

What's "SAO"?

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#63

Post by eps »

vba wrote: post #18
unnouinceput wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Quote from article: "Dr Courtine and Dr Bloch have developed a wafer-thin device with electrodes that could target the dormant nerves. Once implanted into Mr Roccati’s back, the device sent in pulses of electricity that mimicked those normally present in the nerves of an uninjured person as they walk. By doing this, the device acted like an amplifier for any electrical signals coming from Mr Roccati’s brain. Thos…

Why is this post downvoted? Is it inaccurate.

Yes, it is inaccurate to the point of being the reverse.

Muscles are controlled through the software, with pattern of activation uploaded from an iPad via Bluetooth and generally managed by am accompanying person. The patients absolutely do NOT control the muscles with their brain.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#64

Post by jcun4128 »

eps wrote: post #62
jcun4128 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SAO Wonder if you use your mind vs. a display, then are the visuals as good as real life. Or maybe you feed the image and your mind upscales it.

What's "SAO"?

It's an older RPG anime about people laying in bed playing a game in a virtual world via a BCI head set. It wasn't like today's VR, their eyes were closed.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#65

Post by eps »

unnouinceput wrote: post #6
mgreb wrote: post #4

Walk, swim, cycle? Are we talking about pre-recorded neural commands, "modes" in implant? Or they actually managed to restore connectivity in nerves, bypassing damaged part?

No. Quote from article: "Dr Courtine and Dr Bloch have developed a wafer-thin device with electrodes that could target the dormant nerves. Once implanted into Mr Roccati’s back, the device sent in pulses of electricity that mimicked those normally present in the nerves of an uninjured person as they walk. By doing this, the device acted like an amplifier for any electrical signals coming from Mr Roccati’s brain. Thos…

It's NOT his brain. The article is 100% wrong.

Read the Nature article linked at one of top comments. It is also mentioned in every interview the researchers gave recently. The muscles are controlled with the software only, the brain doesn't participate at all.

"... the first implant specifically designed to control movement by mimicking the signals the lower body usually receives from the brain and upper spinal cord."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00367-1

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#66

Post by londons_explore »

Tsiklon wrote: post #57
londons_explore wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the real question is, will a dollar spent on wheelchair ramps in buildings across the USA give a greater quality of life improvement to the average american than a dollar spent on medical research that tries to repair spinal nerves? Obviously "average american" is not intended to reflect the 'typical american', but instead be an average across all people, including those with mobility requirements.

The distinction is that the quality of life improvement can be done now, and can make peoples' lives better immediately. It's not just wheelchair users that can make use of accessible infrastructure, the elderly, and young children can more readily make use of it too. I don't discount the promise or effect of such research, but the utilitarian in me says that this can make a tangible improvement now, and to more peop…

There are plenty of such tradeoffs... For example, the government could start a helicopter service to help people cross a river today, or they could build a bridge across the river, which will help far more people, but won't be ready for 5 years.

I assume governments have models to make decisions about utility now vs utility later, and the way that trades off with cost now vs cost later.

I don't see why this decision shouldn't just use those models and spend the money on whatever the models say makes sense.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#67

Post by Archelaos »

cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

Whenever I come across an article about walking robots for the military, I am asking myself: What about walking-chairs as a replacement for wheelchairs? Could that be a realistic solution to the access problematic? I am an absolute layperson regarding robotics. Can perhaps anybody with some background explain, what to expect here in the next few years?

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#69

Post by kspacewalk2 »

cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

To your last point, it's worth pointing out that making your built environment more easily traversible and usable for people with accessibility needs will pretty much always make it more easily traversible and usable for everyone. It's hard to appreciate this until you visit a country where they haven't spent decades making sure their elevators and hallways are wide enough, there are no unnecessary stupid steps, the sidewalks don't have curbs at crossing points, etc. etc. This is just general societal progress, it makes all of our lives easier and we're so used to it we don't even notice it anymore.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#70

Post by beaconstudios »

ineedasername wrote: post #36

Growing up, this sort of thing was speculated about with almost the same level of "sci fi" around it as things like stopping aging, instant cures for new diseases, and video phones. Just another example of how I slowly ended up living in the future without fully realizing it. Now, where's my flying car and Rosie, my robot maid?

Flying cars, despite being a symbol of a scifi future, are actually a pretty bad idea. Driving on wheels is much more energy efficient than flying, and without the risk of acting like a kinetic weapon if the battery cuts out.

I'm all for innovation, but I do think it's easy to get the wrong end of the stick with scifi and focus on the aesthetic over the social conditions.

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