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Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

economist.com

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Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#51

Post by helsinkiandrew »

verisimi wrote: post #46
cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

Quoted post unavailable.

Unless I've misread the articles about this story this is about a company using electrical stimulation to try to get people with spinal injuries to walk again. Not government using foetuses for some deeper purpose.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#52

Post by mattkrause »

verisimi wrote: post #46
cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

Quoted post unavailable.

You may be happy to learn that a lot of recent stem cell work does not actually use foetal tissue. Instead, there are methods for reverting adult cells from a blood sample back into stem cells (IPSCs, or induced pluripotent stem cells). This is exciting for a number of reasons: not only does it sidestep ethical concerns, but it introduces the possibility of making stem cells--and thus, other cells--that precisely match an individual patient!

On the other hand, I'd encourage you to think about the motivations of medical researchers. Nobody is actually looking for any excuse to work with embryonic tissues (or animals, placebo-controlled trials, etc): it's slow, annoying and expensive and everyone I've ever met would vastly prefer to use yeast + computational models. People do actually want to help the sick and helpless, but the tools aren't there yet to do so with nothing but yeast and computational models.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#53

Post by [deleted] »

twayt wrote: post #17

I wonder if this could be used for a truly immersive vr experience. 1. Hook up said implant, convert analog impulse to digital 2. Chemically induce paralysis of the peripheral motor neurons (??) 3. Truly immersive VR experience where participant controls embodied avatar

[deleted]

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#54

Post by Tabular-Iceberg »

cjmcqueen wrote: post #32
huhtenberg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hooked up trodes to the bottom section of the nerves, enabling patients to activate, selectively, respective muscles. Chain those activations together in sequence and you got a walk. It's described in the Nature article linked from another comment - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00367-1 Also I heard authors give an interview on the radio and they mention that while walking is impressive, a more prac…

As the partner of a complete paraplegic, sitting up and providing trunk control would be a huge benefit to newly injured patients. My partner had titanium rods but in their back 20+ years ago and the connections and bones are now wearing down. Allowing the muscles to provide trunk control would likely improve quality of life, increase mobility, and remove the challenges with arthritis from implants they put in spinal…

Reading in detail what it actually entails to be completely paraplegic is quite an eye-opening experience.

I think a lot of people don't really see past the wheelchair, I certainly didn't for a long time. Some people try as an educational experience to live for a day in a wheelchair, but that's easy, spending a whole day sitting down is something desk workers do anyway. It's a completely different thing if you don't get to use any core muscles. I wanted to try that, but couldn't go even ten seconds without cheating. Even with all kinds of assistive technology it's extremely hard. Also the lack of bowel control must be a total nightmare.

The whole "paraplegics can do anything, they're just like you and me" schtick that normal people are fed is a nice coping mechanism, but I think it may be holding back funding for research into real solutions.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#55

Post by steve76 »

cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

No post body was provided.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#57

Post by Tsiklon »

londons_explore wrote: post #50
cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

I guess the real question is, will a dollar spent on wheelchair ramps in buildings across the USA give a greater quality of life improvement to the average american than a dollar spent on medical research that tries to repair spinal nerves? Obviously "average american" is not intended to reflect the 'typical american', but instead be an average across all people, including those with mobility requirements.

The distinction is that the quality of life improvement can be done now, and can make peoples' lives better immediately. It's not just wheelchair users that can make use of accessible infrastructure, the elderly, and young children can more readily make use of it too.

I don't discount the promise or effect of such research, but the utilitarian in me says that this can make a tangible improvement now, and to more people and not at an indeterminate point in the future.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#58

Post by dundarious »

londons_explore wrote: post #50
cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

I guess the real question is, will a dollar spent on wheelchair ramps in buildings across the USA give a greater quality of life improvement to the average american than a dollar spent on medical research that tries to repair spinal nerves? Obviously "average american" is not intended to reflect the 'typical american', but instead be an average across all people, including those with mobility requirements.

Given perfect hindsight that we have now, at any point in the 20th century you would have to respond "yes, you should also fund accessibility right away" . The answer today is almost certainly the same. Never mind that there are reasons to need accessibility beyond spinal injuries.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#59

Post by tarboreus »

cjmcqueen wrote: post #37

As a partner of a person with a complete spinal cord injury, I appreciate these articles and the science being done by these researchers, it is truly a big and complex and worthwhile problem to solve. For most of us, I do want to suggest being careful when and how you mention research and articles like this to people in wheelchairs. Just be aware there are lots of different reasons why someone might be in a wheelchai…

I'm blind with a retinal disease and it's a similar dynamic. Not all breakthroughs will help a given person. Additionally, most breakthroughs seem to be some version of vaporware, and it might be 10 or 15 years, or never, for most people in that category to benefit. I go through phases of catching up on research, but mostly try not to think about it.

Re: Spinal implants allow paralysed people to walk, swim and cycle again

#60

Post by clsec »

unnouinceput wrote: post #6
mgreb wrote: post #4

Walk, swim, cycle? Are we talking about pre-recorded neural commands, "modes" in implant? Or they actually managed to restore connectivity in nerves, bypassing damaged part?

No. Quote from article: "Dr Courtine and Dr Bloch have developed a wafer-thin device with electrodes that could target the dormant nerves. Once implanted into Mr Roccati’s back, the device sent in pulses of electricity that mimicked those normally present in the nerves of an uninjured person as they walk. By doing this, the device acted like an amplifier for any electrical signals coming from Mr Roccati’s brain. Thos…

The methods used in this study sound almost exactly like a TENS unit (1). As someone with a spinal cord injury that almost left me a quadriplegic, and who has serious neuropathy as a result, I have found that TENS units do very little to help me. I hope this can help people though,

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcutaneous_electrical_nerv...

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