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Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

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131–140 of 257 posts

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#131
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Threema and Signal are the way to go with chat apps, the only advantage Telegram offers are vast groups for specific purposes. Here in Berlin, I'm getting cheap produce through telegram, get alerted to public transport controls (I do have a ticket, but sometimes friends do not), and sell/buy stuff I don't need.

Other advantages: -not being tied to a phone number -having a desktop app which doesn't suck (sync issues, connection issues, lacking features, is basically a simple proxy for your phone, etc) -allows me to use 3rd party apps -having chat history synced across my apps and devices and backed up. History is immensely important

Checkout Element, it covers all that as well. However, the Desktop App is Electron, so I don't know if you are OK with that

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#132

This article is good. Telegram is really weird and sketchy; the rants Durov posts on his channel against WhatsApp usually make no sense; and their claims of security are dubious. And TON was a disaster. On the other hand. If I did any social organizing today, I would definitely use Telegram. Signal is fine , but nobody is using it and the UX is just worse. I don't trust Facebook to randomly not shut everything down b…

> Durov might be sketchy and weird libertarian, but damn, his developers can deliver good and working product really fast. (And from what I understand, it's a really small team.) Credit where it's due.

The UX is great. The Telegram clients are quite nice to use. They're open-source, too. Well, 'open-source' as in they dump a huge diff into the source tree now and again, and they never interact with outside developers submitting Feature Requests and Issues.

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#133
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does UX\UI has to do with E2EE? Sure, Telegram team used more human resources elsewhere while WA and Signal where doing their E2EE magic, but once they where done - what stopped them from investing into everything else?

If you have true e2ee, you can't enter your login/password and see all your chats right there, instantly.

This is wrong, see Element/Matrix, which practically does that

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#134
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have true e2ee, you can't enter your login/password and see all your chats right there, instantly.

Are you sure? You can do what good password managers do: - Hash the password client-side - Send the hash to the server. The server treats it as a password, and gives you your blob of encrypted data - Decrypt the data client-side using the original password

That requires re-encoding all transmitted data with a single password and is potentially vulnerable to brute-force attacks. Encryption used in signal, etc relies on double ratchet mechanism that continuously regenerates keys as they move along. This way one compromised key will not allow to decode the rest of the messages.

Also, downloading blob to client side and decoding it locally can hardly be done fast enough for user to consider it 'instantly'.

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#136

This article is good. Telegram is really weird and sketchy; the rants Durov posts on his channel against WhatsApp usually make no sense; and their claims of security are dubious. And TON was a disaster. On the other hand. If I did any social organizing today, I would definitely use Telegram. Signal is fine , but nobody is using it and the UX is just worse. I don't trust Facebook to randomly not shut everything down b…

The funniest thing is that Telegram's group management tools blow anything FB has out of the water by a nautical mile. If you only need the one channel and you need to manage a 100+ people, Telegram is by far the best tool. For "communities" Discord is a bit better, since you can split stuff to multiple channels. Anyone with basic knowledge of the internet can also install bots on both to manage dozens of different t…

> If you only need the one channel and you need to manage a 100+ people, Telegram is by far the best tool.

Even better than Element? In my experience it does well with hundreds of people as well. And it allows to group channels as well, or use bots

And you can use E2EE everywhere you think you want it

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have true e2ee, you can't enter your login/password and see all your chats right there, instantly.

This is wrong, see Element/Matrix, which practically does that

Ok. After all, what do I know about encryption? I only directed the development of communication products that had OTR, OMEMO and PGP/GPG encryption in them.

Please, enlighten me how exactly Element/Matrix practically do that. Thank you in advance.

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong, see Element/Matrix, which practically does that

Ok. After all, what do I know about encryption? I only directed the development of communication products that had OTR, OMEMO and PGP/GPG encryption in them. Please, enlighten me how exactly Element/Matrix practically do that. Thank you in advance.

It backups your keys encrypted with a password only you know at server side (opt in)

When you login, you provide that password, and Element can use that to decrypt the keys and use these to decrypt the messages stored in the cloud

Alternatively, you can solely rely on syncing keys between verified devices.

Re: Telegram Became the Anti-Facebook

#140
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? You can do what good password managers do: - Hash the password client-side - Send the hash to the server. The server treats it as a password, and gives you your blob of encrypted data - Decrypt the data client-side using the original password

That requires re-encoding all transmitted data with a single password and is potentially vulnerable to brute-force attacks. Encryption used in signal, etc relies on double ratchet mechanism that continuously regenerates keys as they move along. This way one compromised key will not allow to decode the rest of the messages. Also, downloading blob to client side and decoding it locally can hardly be done fast enough fo…

> That requires re-encoding all transmitted data with a single password and is potentially vulnerable to brute-force attacks. Encryption used in signal, etc relies on double ratchet mechanism that continuously regenerates keys as they move along. This way one compromised key will not allow to decode the rest of the messages.

That's a different, further goalpost - we were talking about E2E encryption, weren't we? I.e. the server should not need to decrypt your data to provide it.

Obviously if you want to be able to recover your history from storage with just a password, that does mean the password is the only protection over that history, tautology. So storing your history should be optional, if you're seriously worried about brute-force attacks on data encrypted at rest (indeed, even WhatsApp makes it optional to have a backup of your data!).

In any case, that doesn't compromise future secrecy - i.e. gaining access to the history still doesn't give you access to future messages.

> Also, downloading blob to client side and decoding it locally can hardly be done fast enough for user to consider it 'instantly'.

Off the top of my head, it doesn't have to be a single blob for all your data. You could split the blob into tiny equal-sized chunks, and then have a separate encrypted index file which stores the information of which chunks hold which chats (plus just enough metadata, e.g. chat titles and last messages, to display your homepage properly). The index file is the only one downloaded on first login, then when you want to open a chat it moves the corresponding chunks to the top of the download list.

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