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Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

spacex.com

251–260 of 508 posts

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#251

Very interesting development, mainly that it posed no threat of causing a cascade of space debris since it's in such a low orbit. That feels like an important aspect for considering the acceptability of so many objects from one company/entity in orbit, especially considering the existing cost to astronomy. So we've heard from SpaceX about their LEO sats, but what about other ones further out?

The thing that's not being well conveyed to people here is the storm didn't cause any satellite failure. The storm caused an expansion of the atmosphere which prevented re-orientation and orbit raising. The satellites are still functioning fine.

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#252
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The carbon impact of just one launch is pretty obscene. It really isn't. It's what, 15 aeroplane flights' worth? For the sake of bringing internet to hundreds of thousands of people? By letting people shop online or stream entertainment they've probably paid for themselves in reduced car journeys already.

You're citing the cost of 1% of the network against the entire network's function. It's more like 750 "flights worth." To provide internet service to ~250,000 people - about one quarter the population of a major east coast city. Also, these are consumable - much more so than cable plants. Starlink is horrifically bad for the environment compared to ground-based infrastructure. As witnessed by the very high cost of St…

> You're citing the cost of 1% of the network against the entire network's function. It's more like 750 "flights worth."

Well you opened up by talking about "just one launch".

> To provide internet service to ~250,000 people - about one quarter the population of a major east coast city.

But people who are currently very hard to supply internet to and extremely car-dependent. Building housing in cities would probably be a better solution, and I'm all for efforts to make that legal, but realistically it's going to be extremely difficult to overcome upper-middle-class opposition to that and so other ways to mitigate the impact of those people's lifestyles are very much worthwhile.

> Starlink is horrifically bad for the environment compared to ground-based infrastructure. As witnessed by the very high cost of Starlink service, which is likely losing mountains of cash despite that.

On the contrary, running cable to many of these places would be overwhelmingly environmentally damaging (in many cases you'd have to build a road through a forest or blast through a mountain), and that's reflected in the high (sometimes infinite) cost of internet services. People are buying Starlink because it's cheaper (in the places they live) than ground-based alternatives, and as you've observed, the environmental cost is generally closely correlated to the monetary cost.

> That's not how that works.

That's exactly how it works. You've got to look at the net impact. For people who don't travel internationally, reducing car usage is the most effective single lifestyle change they can make to reduce carbon impact; if Starlink reduces trips to the extent that e.g. people shift from a two-car to a one-car household, that's huge. (And note that if it's reducing travel into towns or cities then that's benefitting the rest of us as well, by reducing congestion and parking usage, which in turn lets us turn more land over to productive uses).

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#253

Seems like a great way to test the resilience of Starlink launches during a predicted geomagnetic storm. And great PR considering how much negative press they’ve been getting over space junk. https://www.google.com/search?q=starlink+space+junk&rlz=1CDG...

The negative press is rather interesting and I'm always wondering where it's coming from. Why generate so much negative press.

Any time Musk comes up on twitter people are quick to hate him. He is a polarizing figure and while there are reasons to criticize him, there are also a lot of people who will happily misinterpret anything so they can perceive him as failing. So any negative story about Musk, correct or not, is emotionally satisfying to those people. Basically the stories come out because the crowd eats them up.

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really up there with the HN classic "Does anyone else think the entire multi billion dollar targeted advertising industry is a scam that doesn't work?"

There have been more expensive scams.

Like most advertising before targeting. Not so much a scam though, more a theater performance.

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#255
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An entire launch worth of satellites is not a "rounding error." The carbon impact of just one launch is pretty obscene.

> The carbon impact of just one launch is pretty obscene. It really isn't. It's what, 15 aeroplane flights' worth? For the sake of bringing internet to hundreds of thousands of people? By letting people shop online or stream entertainment they've probably paid for themselves in reduced car journeys already.

> It's what, 15 aeroplane flights' worth?

Try a single aeroplane?

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#256
post #20

40 sats makes up about 2% of the current fleet - so a rounding error in cost and time. The important part of this news is how those 40 sats deorbit and leave no junk either in orbit or on earth.

SpaceX should build a satellite picker satellite to collect their dysfunctional Starlink satellites and bring them back on Earth. They could study their vulnerabilities and apply the lessons learned to shield future Starlink satellites against solar storms.

You apparently did not read the article as the solar storm did not in fact knock out any satellites.

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#257
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The carbon impact of just one launch is pretty obscene. It really isn't. It's what, 15 aeroplane flights' worth? For the sake of bringing internet to hundreds of thousands of people? By letting people shop online or stream entertainment they've probably paid for themselves in reduced car journeys already.

You're citing the cost of 1% of the network against the entire network's function. It's more like 750 "flights worth." To provide internet service to ~250,000 people - about one quarter the population of a major east coast city. Also, these are consumable - much more so than cable plants. Starlink is horrifically bad for the environment compared to ground-based infrastructure. As witnessed by the very high cost of St…

> the very high cost of Starlink service

It's $99/mo for 100+ megabit service. Sure, it's moderately expensive if you're comparing to cable service in cities. It's downright cheap compared to the cost of connecting the extremely rural customers Starlink targets with physical cables. You don't think running a new set of physical cables to every rural residence in the world (or even cell towers to cover the same) would be expensive or have any environmental impact? Starlink wins on both and not by a small margin.

And then of course there's the prospect of bringing service to the remote mountains and jungles and deserts and polar regions and oceans where nobody lives and which will never (and should never) have ground-based infrastructure. And a bit of sorely needed competition to keep the ground-based monopoly service providers in check. And service for disaster areas or war zones where infrastructure is destroyed.

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#258

I recently started researching into Starlink as my next (cheap) internet solution and stumbled upon these 2 videos below. The worst part for me is that once this becomes more popular the bandwidth will die down to crumble. I don't buy they will be able to upkeep with bandwidth sharing it from satellite to satellite using a.. laser beam (is that even possible to sync 2 satellites and send signal thru laser beam that h…

Both those videos use wildly wrong numbers. There are no plans to use F9 for the entire constellation. SpaceX told the FCC they will use Starship (launch 200-400 sats at once) for the gen 2 constellation, which is 30k satellites. Thunderf00t uses AWS data transfer cost instead of actual backhaul costs. Average household uses 435GB/month and that is $52/year in backhaul cost using .01 per GB. His $10bil/year backhaul numbers imply they have 191mil subscribers to get to that cost... There are a bunch of other issues, but it's too tedious to go through it.

Someone did a write-up on all the problems with the CSS video.

https://littlebluena.substack.com/p/common-sense-skeptic-deb...

Re: Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York Times Capital City, Earth – Satellite Starlink XB-4590 has shut down yesterday, February 8, 2132, following a geomagnetic storm that irreparably crippled its circuits. XB-4590 was 5 months old. It is survived by the 32,008 other active Starlink satellites orbiting the Earth. SpaceX CEO Elon Musk IV declined to comment for this article.

My main takeaway here is that Elon Musk's grandson, "∑∫π²∞", decided he was tired of the escalating unicode name game and just named his kid Elon Musk IV.

It would be Elon IV Musk ... if they cared to follow the norm.
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