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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#611

Post by pedalpete »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #572
pedalpete wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my initial thinking, but then I think most businesses won't want to use a phone as their payment platform. My reasoning is that when I go into a business and I tap the Square terminal, I am assuming that terminal belongs to the business, because what individual would have their own square terminal. If the person who is ringing me up has an iPhone, and says "just tap this", there is a part of me that is wonde…

Are you concerned about a malicious employee using their own iphone to steal the money? Why couldn't they give you their own square terminal? On that note, when you pay cash why can't they just pocket whatever you give them? I don't see why you care anyway, they would be stealing from the store, not from you. You would already have whatever item you are buying.

So, yes, it is a concern about a malicious actor. Likely an employee, but hey, with just an iPhone and a big enough store, can't anyone just pretend to be an employee?

I would like to go to a store where I trust the business, the employee, and the entire pipeline. I understand that is idealistic, but yes, this is how I feel. It's like saying "why do you care if the employee is underpaid, you're saving money", which describes the whole tipping culture in the US.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#612

Post by lotsofpulp »

hunter2_ wrote: post #600
lotsofpulp wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see the results in states that have no tipped minimum wage, such as WA/CA/OR. Generally, restaurant prices are higher (minimum $25 per meal per person without alcoholic drinks), but tipping is still expected by the waiters for waited service. Bottom line is waiters earn more money, but possibly fewer people can afford to eat out and maybe there are fewer waiters overall. I dislike waited food service anyway,…

What are your thoughts about using a counter and self-bussing but the clerk faces a tablet at you with 3 large buttons: 18%, 20%, 25% ? Not only will the personal service be minimal, but the only part you can even judge at that point is how well they took your order... who knows if something will go south! So it's clearly just about keeping menu prices artificially low.

I have always been able to choose “no tip”, along with those other options.

If it was not there, then depending on who I was with, I would either walk out or eat the cost and then never go back and leave a review that says they bait and switch pricing.

Tipping is about price segmentation / discrimination. Good for the seller, bad for the buyer.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#613

Post by IvanK_net »

I wish people were more aware of fees. You pay around 1% of the amount as a fee. Without these fees, everytihng could be 1% cheaper. Imagine every person in the world making 1% more overnight. 1% of your money is a lot.

That is why you will never be able to give money to a friend this way. You give $100, but they receive $99. They give it back after a week, and you receive $98.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#614

Post by MaysonL »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #572
pedalpete wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my initial thinking, but then I think most businesses won't want to use a phone as their payment platform. My reasoning is that when I go into a business and I tap the Square terminal, I am assuming that terminal belongs to the business, because what individual would have their own square terminal. If the person who is ringing me up has an iPhone, and says "just tap this", there is a part of me that is wonde…

Are you concerned about a malicious employee using their own iphone to steal the money? Why couldn't they give you their own square terminal? On that note, when you pay cash why can't they just pocket whatever you give them? I don't see why you care anyway, they would be stealing from the store, not from you. You would already have whatever item you are buying.

A colleague of mine owned a lunchstand, where the cook brought in his own receipt printer and used it for a large portion of daily business, and later bought the business.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#615

Post by hn_throwaway_69 »

reaperducer wrote: post #586
hn_throwaway_69 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I hope it doesn't. Tipping needs to die out. I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused.

I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused. Clearly, you have no idea of how the moving industry works. Everybody's a contractor of a contractor of a franchisee. The person who picks up your stuff is not always the person who delivers it. When I move (frequently), I make sure to tip each person packing my stuff $50, each person loading…

>Clearly, you have no idea of how the moving industry works.

It's really no answer to say I need to understand how each industry works.

Why would I? And why should I? It's the government's responsibility to understand the nuances of, and regulate, each industry.

Do we really want to live in a world where consumers need to understand the detail of how each industry operates so they can ensure sub-sub contractors can be remunerated appropriately?

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#616

Post by lostcolony »

monkeynotes wrote: post #568
lostcolony wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure there, at least for another few years. No store, mom and pop or otherwise, would want to be "tap to pay only" as a means of taking credit card payments. There are still plenty of cards out there that don't have RFID chips.

No one uses a mag reader here in Canada. Europe ditto, and sounds like the antipodes too. I don't know anyone who doesn't have RFID cards, debit or credit. Swiping a card through a mag reader is the backup option alone here.

I'm in the US. It's not uncommon here. In fact, two of my cards, a Chase Visa, and an Amex, both only support mag stripe and chip; they do not have an RFID chip in them. I could get them replaced, but why? Every POS system supports those; not everyone supports tap to pay.

The US may be an anomaly here, but it always has been. The UK had chip and pin roll out while the US still had mag stripe being the most common; we slowly added chip and signature (we still don't have chip and pin), and now we still aren't anywhere close to universal in tap to pay.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#617

Post by bduerst »

closeparen wrote: post #511
bduerst wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and with the advent of NFC in phones, US consumers didn't need the banks' permission to pay contactlessly. Despite this, contactless payment adoption was still slow in the U.S. even though most phones had NFC, it wasn't critical mass until Apple finally decided to support NFC technology.

You do actually need the bank's permission to enroll a card for Apple/Android Pay, it is a feature they have to support.

It is today with different added features, but back in the 2010s you didn't need your bank to support it. You could do it with your VISA/Mastercard/AMEX credit or debit card.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#618

Post by cameronh90 »

gtk40 wrote: post #349
dkonofalski wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it nearly every day and definitely for almost every purchase I make. I no longer carry around a wallet now that digital IDs are a thing and have only had 1 situation in the last 6 months where I needed a physical card because they had TTP disabled on their terminal.

In my area most restaurants with table service don't have an easy way to do tap-to-pay (a few chains have something at the table for you to pay at that supports it). Also two of my most common retailers do not (Kroger and Home Depot). Very few gas stations support it, though the one closest to me recently added it.

In the UK, they bring the card reader to your table and the transaction completes wirelessly. If you want to add a tip, you type the amount into the reader before you tap.

Increasingly public transport supports contactless instead of tickets or proprietary NFC systems - notably the whole of London supports contactless and I've not used an Oyster card in years now.

I've also not seen a card reader that doesn't support contactless since at least 2015, possibly longer. I'm not sure, but based on how quickly contactless rolled out from 2007, I suspect they'd been adding support to the hardware a well before it was enabled.

I know everyone says it but USA really needs to do better. It doesn't make sense that this is so uniquely difficult to rollout there.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#619

Post by stepanhruda »

IvanK_net wrote: post #613

I wish people were more aware of fees. You pay around 1% of the amount as a fee. Without these fees, everytihng could be 1% cheaper. Imagine every person in the world making 1% more overnight. 1% of your money is a lot. That is why you will never be able to give money to a friend this way. You give $100, but they receive $99. They give it back after a week, and you receive $98.

Not that easy, most people get more than 1% back on their cards. It’s a reallocation mechanism where poor people who can’t pay their credit card bills end up sponsoring everyone else

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#620

Post by lxgr »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #606
lxgr wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been possible ever since mobile POS services have started supporting contactless payments, without any catastrophic fallout.

It's obviously different when everyone already has an iPhone. Most crime is opportunistic.

The difficulty in pulling this off is not in owning the reading device (you can already buy a contactless payment terminal and cheap Android phone for much less than an entry level iPhone in every electronics store), but in opening a merchant account (this usually requires verification) and not getting it flagged for very obvious fraud before you can withdraw your "revenue".
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