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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#541

Post by syspec »

jedberg wrote: post #368
tantalor wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how do I know that isn't their personal phone? Why would that be a concern to you? Either way you pay, get receipt, take your goods, and leave. It's not like you are stealing. Are you worried the clerk would MITM your payment and leave you without normal return/refund policy, since it wasn't a legit transaction?

If a random disheveled looking person comes up to you in the middle of a store and says "I can take your cash and give you a receipt", and they they show you a legit looking receipt, do you feel that it would be ok to give them money and take the receipt? Sure, it's the store's job to make sure people aren't impersonating their employees and stealing their receipt papers, so that's on them right?

That's exactly what they do at the Apple store, and they don't seem to be hurting for business

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#542

Post by [deleted] »

jedberg wrote: post #368
tantalor wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how do I know that isn't their personal phone? Why would that be a concern to you? Either way you pay, get receipt, take your goods, and leave. It's not like you are stealing. Are you worried the clerk would MITM your payment and leave you without normal return/refund policy, since it wasn't a legit transaction?

If a random disheveled looking person comes up to you in the middle of a store and says "I can take your cash and give you a receipt", and they they show you a legit looking receipt, do you feel that it would be ok to give them money and take the receipt? Sure, it's the store's job to make sure people aren't impersonating their employees and stealing their receipt papers, so that's on them right?

[deleted]

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#544

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

post_break wrote: post #528
skeeter2020 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't confuse the restaurant industry where tips subsidize wages with the original idea of tipping as a sign of gratitude an thanks. A tip can be a meaningful and impactful way to say "You went beyond expectation, did an awesome job and I really appreciate it". Why would you not want that option?

Tipping at a restaurant is the only place where I would tip face to face. Maybe a valet but I avoid that like the plague too since you're giving your car to someone and no accountability. Name a few face to face tipping scenarios besides food and valet that is common? I'm seriously blanking on anything.

Barber shop, movers, cab driver, bellhop, coat check person, doormen/building staff around the holidays

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#545

Post by steadyready »

tinus_hn wrote: post #452
steadyready wrote: post #405

Man, I swear sometimes I feel like I’m on a forum full of wanted criminals, state actors, and/or felons. I’m not saying I’m against privacy. I am all for not being tracked, but we are approaching absurdity. I really want to see all of you who praise “privacy” go fully offline and use only cash. No cards. No bank account. Nothing. Salary? Cash, because earnings could also be sold and used for advertising. Groceries? C…

How do you go from ‘Apple is offering a new payment method’ to a rant about how you don’t care about privacy? Why would people have to choose between using only cash and sharing their data with everyone? The normal thing to do is limit who can access the data as much as possible. And if people don’t do that, why would legislators care?

> "How do you go from ‘Apple is offering a new payment method’ to a rant about how you don’t care about privacy?"

Because some other people started ranting about cashless payments, payment processors and their privacy.

> "Why would people have to choose between using only cash and sharing their data with everyone?"

Because that's how other people put it. I was just raising the point that we shouldn't have to give up QoL improvements, instead push for more privacy-focused laws, like limiting PII-data being sold along with transaction histories.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#546

Post by jhatax »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #73
thebean11 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protection against account skimming should happen on the customer's iPhone (it should only send data allowing a single transaction of a certain size) not the merchant's iPhone. If the customer's iPhone doesn't have that protection it's pretty easy for the merchant to hide a skimmer in their iPhone case / POS system / gas pump.

If they can assume connectivity it would be best to invert the flow and instead make the Customer receive an invoice ID from the NFC, then work directly with Apple servers to actually pay. Then the Business gets a push notification the invoice was paid. That way the customer phone never actually sends anything directly to the business, and the only thing sent to the customer is basically public (sure, pay my invoice…

They are going to accept payments from contactless credit cards as well, so connectivity isn't assumed. If it could be, the flow you describe is brilliant.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#547

Post by Pxtl »

josephg wrote: post #358
Pxtl wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, here in Canada the magstrip has all but gone the way of the dodo - it's chip-and-pin or tap everywhere here. IIRC vendors here stopped taking magstrips before the Americans even. Cards still have magstrips on them but I can't remember the last time one got used. Maybe a gas station.

Same in Aus. I think banking innovation like this is way easier in smaller countries like australia because there’s way fewer banks. The USA has hundreds of banks - so getting them to all agree on a standard is near impossible. It’s no wonder America still uses ACH and cheques. Australia has just 6 banks. And they have a history of collaborating on things like this - since a fluid economy raises all boats, and fraud…

I think the problem is less the country size and more that the USA had a legislative structure that encouraged small, local banks until recently (1980 iirc) and so before then there was a Cambrian explosion of banks (pardon the pun). Now banks are gradually consolidating, but they have nothing close to the oligopoly that you see in countries without that sort of history.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#548

Post by Angostura »

TheKarateKid wrote: post #524
monkeynotes wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised Apple didn't make this a closed system and compete with Square for small businesses.

They're playing the long game. Apple wants market usage to build bargaining power with the banks. They saw how the original Google Wallet was blocked from adoption because of control by the carriers and banks. Remember ISIS Mobile Wallet? (That name aged terribly..) We saw how it took 10+ years and a dominating market position for Apple to show their claws with controlling 3rd parties with the App Store. Make no doub…

> We saw how it took 10+ years and a dominating market position for Apple to show their claws with controlling 3rd parties with the App Store. M

Really? I thought Apple's position was fairly consistent and it took 10+ years for the companies using the App Store to get antsy.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#549

Post by HWR_14 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #503
HWR_14 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm far more likely to have my wallet on me than my phone. Credit cards have infinite battery life, 100% waterproofing, no real-time tracking/spying and low to no cost to lose. Cash trades out the low cost to lose for anonymity.

> no real-time tracking/spying You'll want a Faraday cage for any contactless cards.

Yes. They sell wallets with Faraday cages. I have been so far able to push off contactless cards, so I just assumed that other people who care about avoiding realtime tracking also insist on chip only.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#550

Post by morpheuskafka »

So between this and the free Square magstripe reader for Lighting port, you've got everything covered.

The only issue would be liability shift for a card that has EMV but doesn't have contactless and thus has to be processed as magstripe, but those cards are getting rarer as most issuers are replacing with NFC-enabled ones.

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