Live data from Hacker News

Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

humbledmba.com

11–20 of 107 posts

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#11

Wow... that takes balls. Getting 0% introductory rate credit cards, and taking a cash advance... and then putting the cash in a bank account that pays interest. Of course, if the business fails - as it did in the author's case - then you're stuck with all of the debt and a broken credit record, but it's all about taking risks right?

We're very fortunate in this country for a liberal bankruptcy law, at least for when it comes to taking this kind of risk.

Now, this kind of risk won't work as well in this economy. Credit cards have severely curtailed their introductory rates. However, in 2002-2007 I knew people who augmented their income multiple times by this same arbitage and putting the money in low risk investment vehicles. Once the intro rates were finished, they would pay back 100% and close the card, moving on to the next one.

The credit card reform act will make this more difficult in the future.

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#13
This is crazy - crazy interesting and crazy nuts. The idea of arbitraging has always be fascinating to me. I've had an idea for currency arbitrage in the travel industry, but never done anything other than back of the envelope calculations. Feel free to take the idea:

Tour operators publish their prices for the upcoming year's trips. They publish them usually in one currency, sometimes in two, rarely in three. They're beholden to these prices because they publish brochures and distribute them to places like Flight Centre.

So what you do is become a wholesaler of a bunch of tour operators' trips (this is easy to aggregate, many have XML feeds that publish their inventory, including pricing & availability). Then you use real-time exchange rates to figure out which currency it's best to sell in to a customer and then buy the product from the operator using another currency. For example, say the US & CAD dollars are at par when prices are published. If the US drops a lot compared to the CAD, you sell the trip to your customer in CAD but purchase the trip from the operator in US.

The beauty is that operators will pay you a commission (usually 20-25%) on top of whatever you gain from the currency arbitrage. There's some complexity in becoming a legal wholesaler and being able to accept multiple currencies etc.

At the very least it makes for some interesting math.

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#14

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I definitely would not want to be blogging about this. What happened to good old fashioned shame and just getting on with your own business? Everyone wants to be a fucking celebrity.

Wow, you must really hate pg and patio11. They spill about everything openly. What attention whores, amirite?

These types of blog posts are merely confessionals with learning points attached that the confessor hopes the reader would find salient. You apparently didn't. And...?

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#15
post #5

For a software startup it is perfectly possible to get off the ground with an outlay Using one hole to plug another never was a really good idea.

I think you missed the part where he says they had no coders as founders, and also the part(s) where he says "don't do this".

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#16
Is this actually considered arbitrage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

While the 4th credit card company he applies to has imperfect information about what his credit is (at that point) actually worth, it seems like all the deals are independent.

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#17

> For some personal background, I do come from a financially stable family. My parents could have covered the $16k to help me follow my dreams. But I didn't ask them (and neither did they offer). The financial pressure and responsibility of my startup was to be fully on my shoulders. Even though he wasn't accepting money from his parents, he was implicitly using their financial security to shoulder this risk. If ever…

Credit card debt is, in most states, entirely dischargable in bankruptcy. So while it would be unethical to take on all this debt specifically with the purposes of squandering it, the CC companies are extending you an unsecured loan. It's really not all that bad of an idea, provided you can survive a bankruptcy and a few years of exceptionally poor credit.

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#18
Maybe I'm missing something but how is this even arbitrage? If you were just putting the money into an interest bearing account and repaying before the interest rate kicked in then yes it would be arbitrage (if you could even beat the 3% fee) but that wasn't happening here.

The author was just taking the 0% rates and using them to fund his company which didn't work out. There was never a guaranteed upside to this which is what you would expect with arbitrage.

Re: Don't try this at home. How credit card arbitrage funded my first company.

#19
post #6

i'm not really well versed in funding or business operations, but this just sounds stupid.

Generally everybody says you shouldn't start a start up on credit cards.

What he went for is the advanced version where you can get free money if you stack the cards correctly. It is difficult to do, but companies and financial investors do it pretty often.

Post reply on HN