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Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

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Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#361

Post by dillondoyle »

35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #349
bostonsre wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why he wouldn't move to somewhere that doesn't have an extradition policy with the US. If you go down that path, it seems like you should probably be willing to abandon your life. It's the same with Ross Ulbricht, seems like it would be terrifying living with that sword of damocles hanging over your head absolutely constantly.

Humans notoriously overestimate their competence and underestimate dangers they face. Combine that with a federal investigation that's going to be slow because 1) it's complex and 2) the feds will happily investigate you for years if it increases their chance of a conviction, and you've got a recipe for people who think they got away with it right up until the moment of arrest.

and underestimate the competence of governments/law enforcement.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#362

Post by 323 »

systemsignal wrote: post #331
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the government trying to enforce their opinion of who should own those Bitcoins, thereby taking power away from the owner that the network has decided on, which would be "whoever has the cryptographic keys". I really don't understand these arguments. The law still applies whether or not you use cryptocurrency. Using cryptocurrency doesn't free someone from the consequences of their actions. Illegal acts are st…

What makes hacking illegal? What if they acquired the Bitcoin without using illegal means Probably not possible in this case, but in DeFi where everything is ruled by smart contracts, what would make executing behavior allowed by those contracts illegal.

Whatever a judge decides is illegal is illegal.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#363

Post by TigeriusKirk »

deepsun wrote: post #132

Should I expect price drop once feds start to sell it? Or they'll just destroy the keys (keeping the money invested forever).

Previously seized coins have been sold in off-chain auctions, same mechanism as other seized goods.

Since these have a known rightful owner, though, they may just be returned.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#364

Post by loceng »

runeks wrote: post #56
loceng wrote: post #14

I ask this every so often during threads regarding stolen cryptocurrency: Is there any solution yet to preventing stolen cryptocurrency funds from being spent? Isn't the only solution to have a central database and require laws to require every transaction to be pre-checked to see if it's stolen funds or not? And not only that, the centralized system will have to be constantly keeping track of wallet mixing to see wh…

There is no solution because you would end up punishing innocent people. E.g. if a thief buys a car with their proceeds then it's not fair to punish the car dealership by confiscating the originally-stolen coins. This was decided in Scotland in 1749, cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawfurd_v_The_Royal_Bank

How exactly are you punishing innocent people? What's happening is you're rewarding thieves.

Your example doesn't fit what I am saying either. With a digital currency you can do a pre-sale trick, so you'll see the funds were stolen - and you then don't sell them the car in the first place.

We can't incentivize theft.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#365

Post by cft »

SantalBlush wrote: post #313
TTPrograms wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obvious no-true-scotsman. Believing that the goal of crypto is to circumvent laws regarding possession and theft is at most a fringe belief. The fact that this is at the top of HN demonstrates how devoid of merit crypto discussion here is.

Circumventing property law has absolutely been a selling point of crypto, front and center, since its inception. The real no-true-Scotsman is saying, "Those who want an extra-governmental system of property aren't the real crypto fans." Yes, they are. In reality, crypto's true purpose is a moving target, so it can never be criticized because that's not what crypto is really about.

Crypto is also a white supremacy tool: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/02/05/the-charm...

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#366

Post by loceng »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #28
loceng wrote: post #14

I ask this every so often during threads regarding stolen cryptocurrency: Is there any solution yet to preventing stolen cryptocurrency funds from being spent? Isn't the only solution to have a central database and require laws to require every transaction to be pre-checked to see if it's stolen funds or not? And not only that, the centralized system will have to be constantly keeping track of wallet mixing to see wh…

Most cryptocurrencies are designed such that the concept of "returning" stolen funds is not really meaningful. The best analogue is cash. If you want to return the cash you need to physically find it and move it back.

So we pretend to treat it like cash and ignore that we can track and know exactly what digital currency is stolen? That's your proposed solution?

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#367

Post by dazilcher »

hellomyguys wrote: post #254
tiffanyh wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It sounds from the release that the justice department has a boatload of compelling evidence against them." You'd hope that before someone is arrested, the prosecutor has ample evidence to prove guilt. I don't understand your point. These individuals have not been proven guilty yet. Why are you editorializing their presumed guilt in this matter. Note: I have no affiliation with these individuals nor case.

It's pretty normal for people to look at the evidence and be able to decide if someone was guilty or not. If someone is on video shooting someone, it is a bit silly to say "Why are you editorializing their presumed guilt in this matter."

Kyle Rittenhouse would like a word with you.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#368

Post by boc »

throw8383833jj wrote: post #304
fxtentacle wrote: post #4

Shouldn't all true crypto believers hate this news? It's the government trying to enforce their opinion of who should own those Bitcoins, thereby taking power away from the owner that the network has decided on, which would be "whoever has the cryptographic keys".

no. this is quite bullish for bitcoin. they're showing that bitcoin can't be used for criminal activity, whatever the government decides that should be (usually in favor of the general public). this helps to legitimize bitcoin. Protecting consumers of bitcoin is bullish for bitcoin. helping to prevent fraud in bitcoin is also bullish for bitcoin. All these things increase confidence in bitcoin as a legitimate way of…

It sounds like all the good things for bitcoin here are coming from the power of the central authority to provide confidence, legitimacy, protection, and legal recourse.

So why on earth is that a good thing for an asset which is all about the power of decentralized systems?

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#369

Post by brightball »

35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #349
bostonsre wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why he wouldn't move to somewhere that doesn't have an extradition policy with the US. If you go down that path, it seems like you should probably be willing to abandon your life. It's the same with Ross Ulbricht, seems like it would be terrifying living with that sword of damocles hanging over your head absolutely constantly.

Humans notoriously overestimate their competence and underestimate dangers they face. Combine that with a federal investigation that's going to be slow because 1) it's complex and 2) the feds will happily investigate you for years if it increases their chance of a conviction, and you've got a recipe for people who think they got away with it right up until the moment of arrest.

Yea, listening to enough stories on Darknet Diaries about how people get caught it’s pretty crazy. Honestly makes working in the groups that catch people like this sound very interesting.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#370

Post by not2b »

openknot wrote: post #179
not2b wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the least bright member of the crew makes a mistake, gets caught, and turns in the rest. Being perfect is difficult to maintain forever, though it's possible in principle. It might require the thief to live like a grad student even though he has billions of dollars/euros worth of stolen wealth; being flashy attracts attention and if nothing else, the tax authorities.

If a person is that financially rich but still has to live like a grad student, it seems like the only point of that wealth is to rebel against the legal system. Even if one isn't caught, there's still a loss of freedom to avoid getting caught. I haven't studied criminology, but I alternatively suppose someone who does that just doesn't think that far ahead. This likely also explains why the vast majority of people w…

There's money laundering; have a front business and gradually mix in a bit of the illegal money and pretend it came from the business. That's how mobsters do it.
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