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Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#331

Post by systemsignal »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #296
fxtentacle wrote: post #4

Shouldn't all true crypto believers hate this news? It's the government trying to enforce their opinion of who should own those Bitcoins, thereby taking power away from the owner that the network has decided on, which would be "whoever has the cryptographic keys".

> It's the government trying to enforce their opinion of who should own those Bitcoins, thereby taking power away from the owner that the network has decided on, which would be "whoever has the cryptographic keys". I really don't understand these arguments. The law still applies whether or not you use cryptocurrency. Using cryptocurrency doesn't free someone from the consequences of their actions. Illegal acts are st…

What makes hacking illegal?

What if they acquired the Bitcoin without using illegal means

Probably not possible in this case, but in DeFi where everything is ruled by smart contracts, what would make executing behavior allowed by those contracts illegal.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#332

Post by hungryforcodes »

AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #169
paulpauper wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or you end up with a useless half key or your trusted accomplice helps in the investigation

The police don't know that you split the key. But I get what you mean. I am sure there are better ways to hide private keys. Encrypting it with a good password that you remember and then printing the encrypted keys comes to mind.

Wait but didn't Vitalik announce he split it on his blog or Twitter?

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#333

Post by dvt »

acchow wrote: post #293
austincheney wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laundering is any process to legitimize illicit income. It does not matter who owns the coins or other assets in question. What matters is if the coins represent any vehicle of fund transfer that originate from any form of criminal enterprise or other unreported financial activity.

So they could have reported the stolen coins it as income, paid taxes, and they'd be in the clear?

How are you arriving to this conclusion? Paying taxes on illicit income does not make the income non-illicit. It just makes you easier to catch.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#334

Post by vmception »

vmception wrote: post #164

> charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering, and conspiracy to defraud the United States Do you think there are more charges to come? If they think they actually laundered money through businesses, why didn't they charge them with multiple counts of money laundering and multiple counts of wire fraud and a violation of the CFAA?

I’m actually wondering if there are serious doubts here. Especially due to the weaker charges levied, and watching the cringy @realrazzlekhan tiktok page where everyone also has their doubts about these people’s competence.

Darknet markets sell IDs, the DOJ also says the hackers used fake IDs to reintegrate the money. This fairly welloff couple (lives in Manhattan condo, owns bengal cat and jewelry) could easily just be one of the IDs. Both the husband and wife are early crypto proponents but that might just be circumstantial to both the DOJ and the hacker who got their IDs.

Watching this one. Its like they got just enough of data for a charge to get the subpoenas and warrants, but not enough to go for the bigger more damning charges.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#335

Post by [deleted] »

300bps wrote: post #263

The hack occurred 5.5 years ago. The Federal statute of limitations on Grand Theft/Larceny is 5 years. Is this why they are charged with Conspiracy to Commit Money Laundring and not charged with the actual theft? Lichtenstein and Morgan are charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering If so, this means that (outside tax obligations) they may have gotten away with it essentially by sitting on the money doing not…

[deleted]

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#336

Post by tptacek »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #320
grumple wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federal government has a ridiculously high conviction rate: 99.96% [1]. They basically only bring the case if they have everything they need to convict. 1. https://www.bhlawfirm.com/blog/2021/05/the-federal-convictio... .

What portion of those convictions are plea bargains? This article says 97%: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/prisons-are-packed-bec... Why are people so eager to confess their guilt instead of challenging the government to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to the satisfaction of a unanimous jury? The answer is simple and stark: They’re being coerced.

This is a pretty silly argument. I'm not opining on whether or not prosecutions are coercive; I'm certain they are. But a lower conviction rate would be a bad thing: it would mean the DOJ was bringing more cases they weren't certain they would win, and even exoneration comes with immense costs to the accused.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#337

Post by whatshisface »

AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #163
wcoenen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixing is not laundering. The difference is that laundering provides you with an explanation for wealth and/or income. Example of laundering: buy a business (with clean or borrowed money), have fictional customers "spend" their cash money at your business every day, then report your income and pay taxes. Now if anybody asks about where you got your money, you have a seemingly legit explanation. Mixing does none of th…

tornado.cash puts your crypto in a completely fresh account (using smart contracts). You can claim that you earned this crypto mining it back in 2010. You can definitely come up with a decent excuse for this. Then you can convert those crypto (in new account) into fiat money. Everyone will know you are lying, but they will never be able to prove it.

That sounds impossible, wouldn't people be able to see that the account didn't have those coins in 2010?

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#338

Post by 35fbe7d3d5b9 »

iskander wrote: post #131
AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be. But even if some of the transactions became public, it should be fine as long as the end transactions (crypto -> fiat) is private, right?

There are very few exchanges left which don't require KYC and even then the real final step is cashing to some kind of bank account. I don't think crypto->fiat privacy is possible beyond a certain level of wealth.

OFAC has broadened enforcement to the point that pretty much any financial transaction across the world has a US nexus. Moving that much stolen crypto without the feds noticing? No chance.

Re: Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

#340

Post by TremendousJudge »

wcoenen wrote: post #153
AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But if not for privacy, why use crypto at all? Even bank accounts are reasonably private, if you are not doing anything considered suspicious by society. Also, with mixers such as tornado_cash, laundering money is , sadly , pretty trivial.

Mixing is not laundering. The difference is that laundering provides you with an explanation for wealth and/or income. Example of laundering: buy a business (with clean or borrowed money), have fictional customers "spend" their cash money at your business every day, then report your income and pay taxes. Now if anybody asks about where you got your money, you have a seemingly legit explanation. Mixing does none of th…

Regarding NFTs, that's how the high art market works. It's for money laundering. "I just sold this Picasso, that's where this money came from Mr Taxman"
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