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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#451
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We in The Netherlands are one of the most cashless societies in Europe. We mostly pay with our mobiles or contactless with banking cards. We even are "going Dutch" sharing our bills with what we call a Tikkie: One person pays the bill and then we send over instant messaging our payment request for money which can be payed directly with one click and authentication in banking app. One thing that is annoying for foreig…

Can’t speak for other countries, but in France and Northern Italy this is the same: contactless cards everywhere. I live in France and --I have to check my banking app to check this because I don’t remember-- the last time I went to a cash machine was almost one year ago.

I'm in the US and the only time I can remember going to an ATM in the past 5 years is because farmers markets sometimes give you discounts > credit card rewards for cash and weed shops cannot use banks so you have to pay cash.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#452

Man, I swear sometimes I feel like I’m on a forum full of wanted criminals, state actors, and/or felons. I’m not saying I’m against privacy. I am all for not being tracked, but we are approaching absurdity. I really want to see all of you who praise “privacy” go fully offline and use only cash. No cards. No bank account. Nothing. Salary? Cash, because earnings could also be sold and used for advertising. Groceries? C…

How do you go from ‘Apple is offering a new payment method’ to a rant about how you don’t care about privacy?

Why would people have to choose between using only cash and sharing their data with everyone? The normal thing to do is limit who can access the data as much as possible. And if people don’t do that, why would legislators care?

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah “restroom attendants” are definitely a thing in the US as well. I used to think it was stupid but from the club owner’s point of view it probably helps a lot to avoid vandalism, drug use, etc. that might otherwise occur in the bathrooms. I do end up seeing a lot of people just not wash their hands because they don’t like feeling obligated to tip the guy for handing them a paper towel.

I just take a paper towel myself. If there is a guy standing there holding the only paper towels in the bathroom, I'll just ask him why he's holding them. I wouldn't use one from him either, that just seems gross. I wouldn't tip for it in any case. It's just slightly glorified panhandling, I assume it isn't at all condoned by the club owner and they'd probably throw the guy out if they were aware. I haven't actually…

Most people prefer to play along and have a good time and not think much about it and focus on the night itself. Less about making a point and more about having fun at the place you'll walk back into once you exit the toilet.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU has contactless paying for a while now, but it uses a chip embedded in the bank card.

I studied abroad in France in 2012--at this time, all European card readers had been chip-based for quite a while and my US credit card didn't have one. I couldn't figure out how to use them and many store clerks had no idea what to do with my magnetic-strip credit card. I went to England in 2019, at which point cards in the US had been updated to use magnetic stripes, and everyone was using tap-to-pay. It turns out…

Haven’t used cash since the pandemic started in the UK. Covid encouraged even market traders and street food vendors to move to contactless payments - which were just about the final holdouts.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#455
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe does have a physical terminal too ( https://stripe.com/terminal ) but I've never seen it at a merchant.

Huh, I did not know that, I’ve also never seen one out in the wild.

You probably have. They're completely non-desccript and unbranded, unlike most other POS solutions, so you're likely to not remember it.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#456

Is this only for merchants? I feel like here in the US we still don't have a great way to send money back and forth with friends and family. Zelle is decent if both parties' banks support it, but otherwise I've tried Google Pay, Paypal, Venmo, and they all have some problem or another. A lot of them (I'm looking at you PayPal) require you to give them your bank username and password!

Hopefully FedNow will come out soon and be usable, backed by the US government: FedNow https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about....

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#457
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long slow road to contactless payments. Almost 2 decades along in the technology adoption curve. I was ready for this in 2005. https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-manage... If course as the article points out, it wasn’t even new technology back then: “ Not Exactly New Tech Mobile introduced the Speedpass in 1997. Speedpass is a small device on a keychain (called a fob) that users wave in front o…

Something I was thinking about the other day is how some modern credit cards technically have four different ways to pay. Swiping pressure-sensitive paper over the raised numbers (the original method) is still possible, though I haven't seen a merchant actually do this since maybe the mid-2000's. Then you have magstripe, chip, and RFID all in the same card. Pretty impressive backwards compatibility, although I think…

I wonder how many trillions of credit cards have become microplastics in our oceans over the many decades...

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#458
post #366
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long slow road to contactless payments. Almost 2 decades along in the technology adoption curve. I was ready for this in 2005. https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-manage... If course as the article points out, it wasn’t even new technology back then: “ Not Exactly New Tech Mobile introduced the Speedpass in 1997. Speedpass is a small device on a keychain (called a fob) that users wave in front o…

I worked in the mobile industry back in 2010s. Every carrier had big shiny projects called "mobile payments" going on. They were exploring, together with banking partners how they could revolutionize contactless payments. A key factor why all these project failed wasn't the technology. As you rightly point out, the technology was already available back then. It was mainly the vast differences in business models in th…

Honestly, I think it was Apple refusing to fully support NFC until 2016 that prevented the market from jumping on contactless payments, at least in the US. They were holding something like a third of the market back from doing it which really made selling adoption to merchants difficult.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I was thinking about the other day is how some modern credit cards technically have four different ways to pay. Swiping pressure-sensitive paper over the raised numbers (the original method) is still possible, though I haven't seen a merchant actually do this since maybe the mid-2000's. Then you have magstripe, chip, and RFID all in the same card. Pretty impressive backwards compatibility, although I think…

I had my card taken that way five-ish years ago. It was on a ferry where presumably there wasn't enough service to use a digital reader. Or maybe the system was just down. I never knew that was an option until then!

One of the hotels I used to stay at did this too, they had a modern card terminal when you checked out, but they took impressions of cards during check-in. It doesn't really do much of anything in the modern era, but you felt like it was doing something and that's enough. Card payments have two separate uncorrelated steps. Authorisation and Settlement.

In the Authorisation step, the merchant on behalf of the network can decide whether you, the supposed card holder, are authorised to make this payment. For example if you have Chip-and-PIN this is the step where a PIN failure means they won't give you the bottle of whiskey you just pointed at through the glass.

To be effective Authorisation must happen up front. With Chip cards, (and also contactless payment) this can happen even offline, because the Chip can carry policy decisions like "Offline payment of up to $10 each time, $100 total before I talk to the network is OK, after that No more until I see a network" inside it.

Impression machines were the very most rudimentary type of "Authorisation", the impression recorded is some evidence they actually saw your card. Or a card embossed with the same numbers, at some point. Modern networks don't want the useless paper trail which results, but some impression machines are still out there and hey, it felt like a "real" card payment. The fact they're essentially useless doesn't matter because...

The Settlement step is separate, and often happens hours, or even days later. In this step the Merchant says, hey Payment Network, I'm Some Big Merchant and I want $123 from your customer #9876.

You might think, aha, and now they provide details from that authorisation right? Right? Nope. It's totally unauthenticated, subject to all manner of glitches and mistakes, and it is based entirely on trust. The big merchants are rich, so, if they sometimes lie and steal that's OK. Whereas if you, Mr Wage Earner, don't pay for that can of Pepsi, you're a criminal and you're going to jail.

If some merchant in say, Spain decides you just spend €546 on a TV with your card, even though you've never visited Europe, that just works. Left to itself, €546 plus conversion costs goes on your card account. To reverse that you'd have to notice the €546 charge, call your bank and complain about this clearly fraudulent card transaction. They're not always going to magically detect it, they should have some anti-fraud pattern matching e.g. if that store suddenly claims everybody living in your town in Ohio bought a TV from them, that's suspicious, it probably doesn't go through, and hey if you never visited Europe maybe that's enough to block it, but not necessarily. The responsibility sadly always stays with you to report any bogus transactions that get through even though the Card Networks made barely any effort to prevent fraud. So, read your card statements.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#460
post #20

Three interesting implications from this press release: - Stripe as the first user of the SDK vs Square: For any small business starting this spring, I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't use and iPhone+Stripe to start off. Zero hardware cost (assuming they have an iPhone), no need to wait for hardware delivery. - NFC will be coming to the iPad. - The ability to keep the same hardware but switch payment network…

Stripe’s fees are pretty high though so that is certainly one reason small businesses may avoid it. Sounds like Apple is adding more processors soon though so it will be interesting to see how the space places out.

A small business is low volume, hence going to have a hard time getting good rates. And they're also constrainted on resources, so the extra effort to get a few points off may cost more than those points (as written above – they're low volume. The cash value for a bp is much lower for them than for a high volume business)
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