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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#301

Post by dkonofalski »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #74
TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

Quoted post unavailable.

It sounds like the whole benefit behind this new form of Apple Pay acceptance is that there is no app. You just double tap the sleep/wake button to open Apple Pay and then tap the phone to the payee's phone. That's no more complicated then reaching for a wallet and pulling cash out of the wallet.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#302

Post by judge2020 »

tiffanyh wrote: post #86

This is the outcome of Apple's 2020 acquisition of Mobeewave. https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2020/apple-buys-mobeewave-for-1... It essentially turns an iOS device into a POS system. Apple already gets 15 bps for all Apple Pay transactions. I'm curious to hear the additional monetization Apple plans to get for this.

> I'm curious to hear the additional monetization Apple plans to get for this.

I don't think there will be any extra monetization - this is presumably just an API in a future iOS 15.x that can be enabled via entitlements Apple assigns, so unless Stripe says "extra 0.3% fee for iPhone PoS payments" they likely won't make any money from it. Think of it as a funnel for getting the last 20% of businesses to accept Apple Pay.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#303

Post by djhn »

AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #264
throwaway22032 wrote: post #224

Hacker News is such a bizarre place. On the one hand, we have threads about how browsers are fingerprintable and some app is using telemetry and endless discussions on theoretical zero-knowledge protocols and the importance of cryptography and Snowden saying this and that that get voted up to the top. On the other hand, something like this comes up which is basically another step along the "no-one accepts cash" funne…

How long before some stores don't accept cash? How long before banks do a background check (taking weeks) before giving you cash?

Already happens. My local bike shop stopped accepting cash.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#304

Post by rootusrootus »

mike1o1 wrote: post #82
yuuu wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had movers a couple months ago and tried to tip them. Note that I don't ever carry cash and am a proponent of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I asked them for their Ethereum or Bitcoin address, and they said, "neither of us don't have that, but we take cash." I calmly tried to explain to them the evils of the Federal Reserve for around five minutes, then began to set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on…

I can't tell if this is satire or not.

Given the 'about' section of their user says "you're all idiots" it seems reasonable to assume everything they say is either satire or an attempt at it.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#305

Post by stu2b50 »

laumars wrote: post #222
stu2b50 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a lot of people, going by the sales numbers, have iPhones? It’s more for very small businesses, who just need a quick and easy way to take card payments. Larger outfits will naturally invest in “real” PoS devices.

I can’t speak for America but in the U.K. there have been terminals that do this that small independent businesses have used for years. They connect to your phone too and work with both Android and iOS. You see taxis, street food sellers and all sorts using them. They also cheap and yet still look a hell of a lot more professional than this thing does. https://merchantmachine.co.uk/contactless/ Note that some of thes…

It is the same in the states with Square (among others), but the ease of “I have to do nothing” is nonetheless extremely alluring to the most adhoc of businesses.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#306

Post by dkonofalski »

iam-TJ wrote: post #217
gwd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I read this sort of thing all of the time and it sounds as if you're just going out of your way to not carry cash for the sake of it. The drawer behind me right now has loose change in it, my jeans pocket always has a fiver. What happens when you tip that fiver away? You have to go to the ATM and replace it. It's been years since I've carried a wallet in my pocket. When I go out I have my keys in one pocket and a p…

The big problem here is you've no fall-back for when the place you're trying to pay, or their merchant services provider, has a communications/network outage or malware attack or has assets frozen - some of which affect multiple large retailers. There have been many instances over the years, even just in the U.K., where small and large stores have been unable to accept digital/network-required payments and ended up w…

And there's no fallback for when you have to make multiple payments and don't have the cash on hand already. There's no fallback for an ATM outage where you can't withdraw the cash. There's no fallback for a communications/network outage at the bank where they can't query your balance and withdraw funds for you.

There are problems with any system. This one has the advantage of convenience.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#307

Post by dharmab »

AlexanderTheGr8 wrote: post #264
throwaway22032 wrote: post #224

Hacker News is such a bizarre place. On the one hand, we have threads about how browsers are fingerprintable and some app is using telemetry and endless discussions on theoretical zero-knowledge protocols and the importance of cryptography and Snowden saying this and that that get voted up to the top. On the other hand, something like this comes up which is basically another step along the "no-one accepts cash" funne…

How long before some stores don't accept cash? How long before banks do a background check (taking weeks) before giving you cash?

Cashless businesses were appearing in NYC pre-pandemic until the city passed a law against them to preserve access for unbanked consumers. This law was criticized as it greatly increased the cost of starting a small business. Then the pandemic happened and cash usage declined further.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/nyregion/nyc-cashless-ban... - Note the date

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#308

Post by manquer »

Hakashiro wrote: post #285
websap wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrying cash comes with inherent risks.

And Apple Pay is much harder to trace (except for Apple and your bank I guess?) than just using a plastic static card. I can't count the amount of times I've lost or been robbed physical bills. Never once have money siphoned out of my online bank. I don't use cash anymore, I'm all digital, and still use a VPN to watch porn. Turns out different people have different threat models. My threat model includes my neighbour…

Threat model should include banks , credit scores and spending patterns of credit cards is the foundation of credit worthiness in this country .

For example, your credit score is penalized if your have high utilization on your card doesn’t matter if you never default on a payment, Low credit score results in low limits in turn keeps utilization high.

Bank knowing I defaulted on a card as a risk parameter is one thing, them knowing how much I spend every month and likely on what line items is not ideal when they can control a lot of your life.

Bad credit score can mean high interest rates , higher down payments rejected for loans that can have major impact on your life.

It is also likely bank or payment processors can indirectly sell our buying patterns for targeting ads.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#309

Post by judge2020 »

samwillis wrote: post #16
thebean11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think tap to pay can be skimmed in the same way you can with swiping. You'd have to actually clone the data on the NFC chip, which isn't possible through a tap from what I understand.

I believe it's possible to perform a MITM attack on contactless cards. From a quick google: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9220841 I do also remember reading about researchers at Cambridge University who were looking at this maybe 7-8 years ago.

There's also this:

https://youtu.be/YmJ4ULncNwg // https://i.blackhat.com/asia-20/Thursday/asia-20-Galloway-Fir...

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#310

Post by snapetom »

beambot wrote: post #244
melling wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long slow road to contactless payments. Almost 2 decades along in the technology adoption curve. I was ready for this in 2005. https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-manage... If course as the article points out, it wasn’t even new technology back then: “ Not Exactly New Tech Mobile introduced the Speedpass in 1997. Speedpass is a small device on a keychain (called a fob) that users wave in front o…

PayPal was founded on this premise in 1998: Contactless payments through Palm Pilots. Wasn't a new idea at that time either.

I distinctly remember, over ten years ago, paying with PayPal at a restaurant in Austin. That's why I have a profile pic on PayPal. The waitress requested I take one as it was the biometric ID method used.

I'm pretty sure it was a tap to pay with the app. I can't remember if the other device was also iOS. It was definitely not the kludgy QR codes like it is now.

I thought it was so cool, but it never caught on. I read a while later that PayPal was licensing that tech and let the license expire.

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