Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#251

Post by peoplefromibiza » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #23

sabjut wrote: post #14

Clarification due to a somewhat confusing title: This is about the merchant using an iPhone to accept credit cards and other Tap to Pay devices. The customer was able to pay with Tap to Pay with their iPhone for a while now.

The long slow road to contactless payments. Almost 2 decades along in the technology adoption curve. I was ready for this in 2005. https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-manage... If course as the article points out, it wasn’t even new technology back then: “ Not Exactly New Tech Mobile introduced the Speedpass in 1997. Speedpass is a small device on a keychain (called a fob) that users wave in front o…

In Italy RFID payments have been a thing since 1989

Unfortunately this is one of those cases where being among early adopters wasn't an advantage, in many areas of Italy cash is still the only viable payment method.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepass

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#252

Post by throwaway22032 » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

iam-TJ wrote: post #217

gwd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I read this sort of thing all of the time and it sounds as if you're just going out of your way to not carry cash for the sake of it. The drawer behind me right now has loose change in it, my jeans pocket always has a fiver. What happens when you tip that fiver away? You have to go to the ATM and replace it. It's been years since I've carried a wallet in my pocket. When I go out I have my keys in one pocket and a p…

The big problem here is you've no fall-back for when the place you're trying to pay, or their merchant services provider, has a communications/network outage or malware attack or has assets frozen - some of which affect multiple large retailers. There have been many instances over the years, even just in the U.K., where small and large stores have been unable to accept digital/network-required payments and ended up w…

Or the store just has to close entirely because they "can't" accept cash.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#253

Post by vmception » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

losvedir wrote: post #33

Is this only for merchants? I feel like here in the US we still don't have a great way to send money back and forth with friends and family. Zelle is decent if both parties' banks support it, but otherwise I've tried Google Pay, Paypal, Venmo, and they all have some problem or another. A lot of them (I'm looking at you PayPal) require you to give them your bank username and password!

I don't like Zelle because I like using a credit card and accumulating credit card points.

so its a non-starter for me.

although one time I did a chargeback on a Venmo transaction, and Venmo banned me. that was an inconvenient few months before I maybe tricked their system. maybe as in I'm not sure they are just tolerating me.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#254

Post by joshstrange » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

websap wrote: post #247

Did they just completely destroy Square's POS device business?

No support for Swipe or Dip but this is pretty awesome. I still need swipe/dip so I'm stuck with my BTLE device for that stuff but this is pretty awesome for contactless.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#255

Post by asd88 » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

axg11 wrote: post #20

Three interesting implications from this press release: - Stripe as the first user of the SDK vs Square: For any small business starting this spring, I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't use and iPhone+Stripe to start off. Zero hardware cost (assuming they have an iPhone), no need to wait for hardware delivery. - NFC will be coming to the iPad. - The ability to keep the same hardware but switch payment network…

I believe SQ most basic card reader is free, so hardware cost is not really a competitive advantage here.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#256

Post by TameAntelope » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

throwaway22032 wrote: post #224

Hacker News is such a bizarre place. On the one hand, we have threads about how browsers are fingerprintable and some app is using telemetry and endless discussions on theoretical zero-knowledge protocols and the importance of cryptography and Snowden saying this and that that get voted up to the top. On the other hand, something like this comes up which is basically another step along the "no-one accepts cash" funne…

I don't want to reduce my data trail, as I don't believe there are meaningful risks associated with creating one.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#257

Post by 0xy » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

This is a clear shot across the bow of Dorsey's empire. Given Square's huge portion of their revenue coming from readers, things have to be looking bleak over there.

Square is down 61% since October.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#258

Post by msoad » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

tiffanyh wrote: post #86

This is the outcome of Apple's 2020 acquisition of Mobeewave. https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2020/apple-buys-mobeewave-for-1... It essentially turns an iOS device into a POS system. Apple already gets 15 bps for all Apple Pay transactions. I'm curious to hear the additional monetization Apple plans to get for this.

Not all iOS devices have NFC. This is an iPhone-only feature

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#259

Post by Twisell » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

toufka wrote: post #218

profmonocle wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I was thinking about the other day is how some modern credit cards technically have four different ways to pay. Swiping pressure-sensitive paper over the raised numbers (the original method) is still possible, though I haven't seen a merchant actually do this since maybe the mid-2000's. Then you have magstripe, chip, and RFID all in the same card. Pretty impressive backwards compatibility, although I think…

And the numbers themselves that can be entered manually. 5 payment modalities with a thin piece of plastic.

And what really make this a 5th modality is the required CVV (card verification value) printed on the backside of the card.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#260

Post by throwaway894345 » Tue, Feb 08, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

brimble wrote: post #230

throwaway894345 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, the US has contactless payments all over and probably has had them since ~2015, it just took some time for people to "discover" them.

I've only just gotten used to the slide-it-in-the-slot kind. Whatever that's called. The thing that's replacing the magnetic stripes, more or less. I always forget about contactless. I think all my cards can do it? Not knowing for sure is why I never try, and just stick the card in the slot, which always works. I think I've paid with my phone one time ever. For some reason I can't bring myself to trust it to work 100…

> I've only just gotten used to the slide-it-in-the-slot kind.

I always called this "chip". My UK friends called it "chip-and-pin" in 2012. But yeah, no idea what the technical or widely-accepted colloquial terms are.

> Not knowing for sure is why I never try, and just stick the card in the slot

Yeah, for some reason the UX for contactless is terrible. Sometimes something will show four evenly-spaced green lights (and sometimes they're blue--in any case, why does that mean "contactless"?) but often those lights don't appear until you attempt a tap-to-pay and then they might be delayed by several seconds. And even then, occasionally the hardware malfunctions and can't actually handle tap-to-pay. These hardware failures seemed to be way more common in the early days, but now almost everything does support tap-to-pay--you just often can't tell until you try which is just the dumbest thing ever.

> I think I've paid with my phone one time ever. For some reason I can't bring myself to trust it to work 100% of the time so I can leave my cards at home

I definitely do it as a last resort, but I've done it a few times (e.g., if I forget my wallet). Mostly on iOS I'm often trying to pay quickly and I try to activate the contactless payment but I'll end up turning my phone off or I'll try to bring up my card before my phone is close enough. The uncertainty always makes me feel way more anxious than it should and it's just less stress to use a card (cards also don't run out of batteries).